Paladin doesn't suck, 2 minute rotations just ruined combat

[Avenheit]

2 minute rotation change introduced with EW is literally the only reason why PLD is the way that it is.

All fights are still designed with the old skool 60/90 seconds in mind. It's evident considering how often we're left with our metaphorical 3rd leg swinging in the wind because the boss decided to becoming untargetable.

On a more serious note, we seriously need to let the devs know that we NEED combat to revert back to a shb/sb format.

Fanfest 2023 - let them know.

[Rithy255]

I personally think they should try a new format in 7.0, The EW format generally I don't think is sustainable enjoyment wise.

I think while that the design might be easier for Balancing jobs, of course it's easier to balance every job around bursting inside 2minutes rather then not, the problem comes from how bland and boring job design becomes, it makes every job feel pretty similar, where they become build up and burst jobs, instead of having a varity of designs and different ways to burst, it becomes more just "can this job fit everything into this 2 minute raid buff" which isn't fun.

I think the issue with making everything simple to balance becomes a point where everyjob in ff14 feels like a different flavour or skin to play as instead of a actual job that has some pros and cons (but hopefully all jobs can perform at a higher level).

I think it's ok that not all jobs will be "meta" as long as they're viable and have unique instances where they shine compared to other jobs, the problem is making every job so balanced to the point where theirs no real "meta" means you've got rid of any actual Job design, theirs no reason for a Job to be in game if it really doesn't bring anything new or unique outside looking flashy and cool.

I think all jobs should definitely be viable in all forms of content, but a "perfect balance" doesn't exist without hurting job design, we currently see this in the way that new job reworks are being structured to only be burst jobs.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Stormblood format. The good parts at least, cull the unnecessary jank.

Every job having their own varied CD timers that fit their OWN kit, possibly decoupled from various buff windows (so a line-up likely ends up later in the fight)
Ranged jobs having their support niche restored along with the damage being adjusted to not have a gaping chasm between themselves and melees.
Give Machinist a damage utility and a defense utility back, namely: [Offense] Bishop Autoturret, the PvP version on a longer CD (90s?) would sound swell. [Defense] Palisade. BRD got Minne and Wardens, DNC got Curing Waltz and Improv, let MCH have something.
All those cooldowns that fulfill their essential functions like the 30% mitigations from tanks? The Troubadour, Tactician and Samba? Yeah? Give them a unique flavour for each job without jeopardising the core use. WAR's Vengeance may be the outlier, but is arguably what the cooldowns should be instead.

Furthermore, bring back synergy within various jobs' own kits. It hurts my soul having gone from Stormblood to Shadowbringers with Dark Knight, with the sole replacement being a DOT on legs that looks cool.

[FireMage]

Nope, 2min is a good thing. The only way to break buff timings is to have buffs happen all over the place

[Rithy255]

Nope, 2min is a good thing. The only way to break buff timings is to have buffs happen all over the place

How is limiting job design a good thing? (limited under 2 minutes)

[FireMage]

How is limiting job design a good thing? (limited under 2 minutes)

Job design isn't limited by 2 min, it's limited by 32 buttons

[Rithy255]

Job design isn't limited by 2 min, it's limited by 32 buttons

It's limited by 2 minutes every job has to be a burst into 2 minutes, leading to limited ways you can design a job. Sustained jobs cannot exist as evident by Paladin.

How is 2 minute meta a good thing?

[FireMage]

It's limited by 2 minutes every job has to be a burst into 2 minutes, leading to limited ways you can design a job. Sustained jobs cannot exist as evident by Paladin.

How is 2 minute meta a good thing?

Because it promotes viability

[Rithy255]

Because it promotes viability

Everything is currently viable, shb jobs were all viable.

Making every job spam 1, 2, 3 would be the most balanced and easy way to make every job "viable" but making things more "balanced" by taking out gameplay and enjoyment doesn't mean it's good balance.

[FireMage]

Everything is currently viable, shb jobs were all viable.

Some more than others. Redirect yourself to my first post in this topic, and read it until you get it