Is there a way to keep tank stance on until I turn it off?

[Deveryn]

This used to be the case, many moons ago. Tanks with their stance on defaulted to keeping it on through any situation, and the community complained, particularly raiders. The argument was basically that tanks needed to be aware of their enmity generation and if it defaulted to always on, it was ruining multi-tank scenarios. Personally, I think it was so you could call out trolls, since if the alliance or raid said 'This person is tank' and the off-tank turned it on also, it was clear they weren't following the desires of the group.

Using Shirk with always-on isn't a great way of doing it, but instead they could utilize a buff like V&C's Ultimatum to increase enmity gain. I don't think it would impact any standard tank statuses, although raiders might still object to it. If off-tanks had a way to temporarily turn off the trait, it might help. Something like a Class Action called 'Withdraw', lasts 10s, recast in 10s, that removes the trait and lowers current enmity. Of course, Cleric Stance was removed because it... wait, why was it removed again?

Why add another button to click, when you can click the one that's already there?

[Jeeqbit]

OP, just in case you're not aware, it does this with food as well, so try to wait until you're actually in a duty to use food so you don't accidentally lose it.

It does not happen with food. Why do you believe it happens with food?

Considering the direction of the game the devs might as well make tank stance a passive and just remove the skill while reminding tanks that shirk exists. /shrug

Sometimes the gear difference or rotation execution between tanks is so massive that shirk isn't enough, and the more geared tank gets the boss back after some time. Sometimes older bosses weren't designed for the timings that shirk comes off cooldown. Sometimes a tank death throws off the shirk timings and in order to avoiding taking the boss after a swap, you need to turn the stance off instead.

Perhaps spamming Provoke could solve that but I think it would be annoying to add this to your rotation when some tank rotations have a lot of abilities to use already. I also believe that many of my co-tanks would not usually spam provoke in this situation, causing it all to go wrong. Being able to save the situation myself by turning my stance off gives me a way to fix the situation.

[Zebraoracle]

It does not happen with food. Why do you believe it happens with food?

Sometimes the gear difference or rotation execution between tanks is so massive that shirk isn't enough, and the more geared tank gets the boss back after some time. Sometimes older bosses weren't designed for the timings that shirk comes off cooldown. Sometimes a tank death throws off the shirk timings and in order to avoiding taking the boss after a swap, you need to turn the stance off instead.

Perhaps spamming Provoke could solve that but I think it would be annoying to add this to your rotation when some tank rotations have a lot of abilities to use already. I also believe that many of my co-tanks would not usually spam provoke in this situation, causing it all to go wrong. Being able to save the situation myself by turning my stance off gives me a way to fix the situation.

If you have a food active and go into lower level content, it removes the food buff doesn't it? I could have sworn this was a conversation I'd seen in game.

[Tiramu]

I'd say the difference is that Tank Stances are (though they weren't before) OGCDs. Carbuncle is a hard cast that you need to spend MP and a potential Swiftcast on for something that enables you to do your job. Tanks can still get mileage out of Provoke despite not having their stance on for a few secs.



They could bring back aggro combos. DRKs have been asking for their old finisher for years. The issue is that then people might end up easily competing for Aggro (not that it doesn't happen nowadays...), and people will hard-focus DPS instead of grabbing aggro. But honestly, while not perfect, I did like the system they had in Stormblood. Especially with stuff like Diversion, which forced the DPS to also have some responsability when it came to group content. But given the way the game's designed now and their philosophy, I understand why it's no longer the case. Seems to me they want a pick-up-and-play style rather than having to rely on team effort.
And Cleric was removed because healers were healing less while the buff was up, which led to unfortunate issues during emergency situations...

I understand that, however, I dont think either add anything to the jobs complexity or mechanics; and removing them to autos and making Shirk cast aggro more powerfully (or prioritise the aggro list) wouldnt remove anything either.

[RitsukoSonoda]

Long long time ago they actually did make it so tank stance didn't turn off when level sync'ed... then they broke it and never fixed it

[Jeeqbit]

If you have a food active and go into lower level content, it removes the food buff doesn't it? I could have sworn this was a conversation I'd seen in game.

It doesn't. My food has always survived multiple roulettes. I usually apply it before entering. There are certain categories of buffs that don't get removed.

The reason tank stances can't be in that category is because there are levels where you don't have a tank stance and keeping it would mean you still have the stance at levels you are not supposed to. Those levels are extremely low, obviously.

[Zebraoracle]

It doesn't. My food has always survived multiple roulettes. I usually apply it before entering. There are certain categories of buffs that don't get removed.

The reason tank stances can't be in that category is because there are levels where you don't have a tank stance and keeping it would mean you still have the stance at levels you are not supposed to. Those levels are extremely low, obviously.

Huh, I could have sworn there was some kind of content that removed food buff upon scaling to it.

[Midareyukki]

I understand that, however, I dont think either add anything to the jobs complexity or mechanics; and removing them to autos and making Shirk cast aggro more powerfully (or prioritise the aggro list) wouldnt remove anything either.

Well, yeah I agree with that. Both carbuncle and tank stances are virtually relics of an older system. One Square likely doesn't know how to get around. If you condensed the classes further, you'd basically have the same thing you have now.

What I pointed out was really that tank stances aren't required to do your job to a certain point, especially if you just raised. Provoke's there and it's 25% aggro, regardless of stance. Carbuncle is an absolute thorn on my backside and Square's a dolt for keeping it. It's literally useless, not even for the shield anymore which I can't use while Egis or Demis are up. But I need it there, or I can't even call Egis nor Demis.

The only thing I'd be wary of would be how you'd safely establish which tank was main tank. But aggro combos can deal with that.

Whether or not Square can do anything good with it is a different story. Especially given their track record lately which has been...

[Jeeqbit]

Enmity combos were something that if you tried to explain them to a sprout it made tanking sound complicated. I doubt they would bring them back. Now that we can tell a sprout "just turn on tank stance and attack enemies" and know that this is optimal it's increased the amount of tanks.

[Deveryn]

Enmity combos were something that if you tried to explain them to a sprout it made tanking sound complicated. I doubt they would bring them back. Now that we can tell a sprout "just turn on tank stance and attack enemies" and know that this is optimal it's increased the amount of tanks.

That's good. I'd hate to have to deal with that on top of getting them to voke properly during certain busters.