Why is everyone anxious about a PLD Rework?

[ForsakenRoe]

I don't know how I can be more clear about this, any other tank cannot use two of their short cd mitigations at once, it's unique to Paladin So the idea that for every double tank buster that you have to use 100 gauge just so healers don't struggle makes no sense, as PLD would be meta if healers had to pump out heals if the PLD didn't spend Intervention and holyshelltron on both tanks, Most the time if your warrior is going to use flash on you, all you would need is a Intervention on them and a sentinel (as using sent/rampart will further buff intervention and your Defence + warriors flash on you), using holyshelltron at that point isn't really Needed, you already got your intervention both you and the warrior are getting healed by flash, your intervention is regen on him and bassically 30% mitigation + whatever personal warrior might use, Using Holy shelltron on that situation isn't really needed, might be nice?

Paladins the only tank job that could use Holy shelltron on some autos and uh oh a tank buster coming up! oh well you can intervention the other tank or Use Shelltron on self and the tank can use their short cd on you and/or self then you both can use another personal and you'll likely not burden your healers.

PLD's issues aren't that you can store 2 of your CD's at once, which by my testing eariler charge back a little bit faster then war/gnb, that's like the only benefit to playing PLD actually, It's Issues are everything else such as Cover, LONG invul, No controlled sustain, Missing CD's other tanks have in place of other stuff, "blocks" from holyshelltron not working properly.

The point is, lets say you do the Intervention swap with, IDK a WAR. You want to kitchen sink the TB. So you use Sentinel, Rampart and Intervention them. They Nascent Flash you in return. Based on just this interaction, they're now at 40% (or 10%+10%+10%+10%, idk if Intervention boosting is multiplicative) and you are at 30+20%+10%. However, they still have Vengeance (+30%), Thrill (+20% max HP), their OWN Rampart (+20%), and Equilibrium for the bleed after the hit (now including a regen effect). Total for them, 40%+30%+20%+20%maxHP. Total for you, 30%+20%+10%. If you don't Sheltron as well as the Intervention, you're behind on mit, by a sizeable amount. Being healed by Flash isn't going to help if the TB oneshots you due to lack of mit. If you go into a TB without Sheltron ready, you're probably going splat, you're already behind in mit count compared to the other tanks, and you are suggesting here that 'no actually you don't need to Sheltron stuff'. So yes, I'd argue that you probably want to have 100 gauge ready for TBs.

Giving PLD back the 20% mitigation on Cover, on all damage taken while Cover is in effect (even if the tether is broken by distance) would probably help, taking the stupid Oath cost off of it would help too. SB Cover was nuts because of all the transfer-able debuffs and shenanigans it could be applied to, eg BRD taking the O11S tether and getting Cover'd for the raidwide, for more uptime. But that's fine IMO because A: players found a creative way to get more uptime (DRK/WAR couldn't do it, but DRK did more damage anyway), and B: we're now looking at a tier where we have nothing but double-TBs. Some can be solo'd, but need invuln to do so (EG Compressed Aero in P7S). If we had 20% mit Cover now, it'd be nowhere near as 'OP' as it was back then, as the fight design doesn't allow as much trickery.

Or we could remove the 100% Block effect on Passage and change it to let the PLD also get the effect of it, allowing it to be used as a pseudo-CD for 15% mit. 'It has two raid mits wow' isn't as special in this day and age it seems, and lining up POA so that everyone's in it is a pain in the ass

[Rithy255]

Reply to Roe:
Lets say you have two tanks, a Gunbreaker and a Warrior, Gunbreaker uses Nebula on self, Rampart, Camouflage on self, they then use HOC on the warrior, The Warrior does the same they use Thrill, Rampart, Vengence, they use Flash on the Gunbreaker both would survive.

But In the case for Paladin, instead of GNB (imagine they're at 50 oath) they use Sentinel, Rampart and then they use intervention on the warrior. they would also receive warriors flash, The only thing the PLD is "lacking" in terms of mitigation would be the 10% GNB gets for sinking Camouflage, I'm not a numbers expect but most cases I'd be pretty sure the PLD would survive, the situations where gunbreaker would survive right? Maybe not in DSR? if I knew the exact numbers of the duel tank busters it would likely be easier to work out.

The case is that yes it's better to use Shelltron/intervention together if you need to kitchen sink it then yes PLD will have to wait and be restricted on that front, but in general PLD's more free to use their cooldowns then any other tank because of having two charges, Not actually defending PLD defensively here but I just do not understand how PLD would feel more restrictive in using short CD's then any other tank would.

Reply To G Serpent:
Again making Shelltron 25 seconds (1 charge I assume?), Nerfs it as it fills up every 21 seconds of auto attacks from what I tested, I actually think Oath gauge should get adjusted, Shouldn't be based off autos (such as a timer or something, maybe also using mitigation at the right time would fill it faster). Holy shelltron needs to be generally just a normal mitigation (Not a block), it needs to be able to target players (with something like a 1 Second cd, so you could double target), This would remove Intervention similar to how GNB/DRK's short cds can target each other.

Keep in mind intervention works like a normal cd and has no ties to blocks so PLD could just use it on their cotank and get their cotanks cd (also not a perfect solution, again Blocks need to be rethinked or looked at).

I actually don't think they tested PLD, they would have reworked it sooner for not being like every other job... likely only noticed it when they had to keep on buffing it.

[Kemeko]

Back when all tanks had 2 tank stances, PLD could switch to Shield Oath and gain oath gauge through spells. 5 Holy Spirits gave you 100 gauge, so at a rate of 10 gauge per 1000 mp usage. If they brought this back, it would solve the lack of personal mitigation, more or less. Personally, I'd rather see Cover as a toggle for fun, because no double tank buster will ever see it used. On a tangent, swapping clemency to ogcd would mean that you can't proc Divine Veil at lower levels without reworking it. If they want to have Divine Veil tied to gcd heals, make Divine Veil a healing version of Requiescat, 50% bonus heals, instant spell cast, no mp cost for heals, maybe give divine stacks when using Clemency that doubles holy spell potencies so it's less of a dps loss and add those stacks to Atonement so Requiescat becomes a better burst. Block used to reach 32% damage reduction as well, but it's been reduced to 20%, so swapping Sheltron "block" to 20% mitigation would make it stronger because then you can get a chance to either block or parry on top of the base 20%.