Why is everyone anxious about a PLD Rework?

[Gserpent]

Depends on what fight you base your math on and what you want to mitigate.

Overall I would say that all Tank's are fine with mitigation right now. Especially after the living dead adjustment.

It doesn't. PLD is the tank with the lowest sustain and personal mitigation by a mile, and it also has the weakest party support because Wings is unlikely to get the whole group unless it's a downtime thing anyway (which is always "throw the sink at it" anyway, so wings doesn't even matter here) and Cover may as well not exist. If you are remotely honest with the math, PLD comes out on the bottom in any equation. There's a reason Square-Enix is reworking it.

If you want to "save your friends," play DRK. TBN is a better buddy-saving tool than Clemency could ever hope to be.

[Mikey_R]

Just to continue on about how bad cover is, Intervention is objectively better.

I don't now if Cover takes into PLD's innate 20% damage reduction (so, if an attack was targeting a healer for 10K, it would only do 8K to the PLD), however, if you had instead used Intervention, that is base 10% damage reduction, plus another 10% from Knight's Resolve plus the 1000 potency Regen from Knight's Benediction.

Sure, you could increase Cover's effectiveness by using Rampart or Sentinel, but they do also buff Intervention, plus, depending on timing, you could lose out on using them for a tank buster.

As for the after healing, the healer has to either heal you as the tank, or the one the attack was directed against, it makes no difference.

Even then, any attack directed at another party member is not going to be designed to kill them to the pint you have to use Cover, other tanks don't have that and you cannot force a certain job to be required.

Overall, with Intervention, Cover is redundant. If they want Cover to stay, it has to be strictly better than Intervention. This would then lead to a disparity where Cover is better for the odd mechanic and Intervention is used for (shared) Tank Busters.

I suppose, in theory, you could cover someone who is about to die to the next mechanic, but that is a very niche use that Intervention might not be able to save them from but is this one niche enough to keep Cover?

[Mithron]

Because I want to use Clemancy in current ex trials and savage raids, I want to use it in expert roulettes and trial roulettes and also older synced content. Using it only sometimes in PotD or HoH or Bozja is underwhelming at best, or only using it as emergencies during failed runs just doesn't out weigh when I could be using it more often instead. Having both current Clemancy and an OGCD heal probably won't ever happen, and even if it did, they'd only add it at a super late level which isn't ideal. I want it specifically to be Clemancy because Clemancy is unlocked in early HW, therefore I could use this OGCD heal earlier than only in the next expansion going forward.

[Gserpent]

Adding an oGCD when we have a GCD action that would fulfill that purpose is absurd. Just fix the broken ability, don't add a new button that will ensure the broken ability is used even less than it already does. What you're asking for is meaningless button bloat and buttons that will be taken off of hotbars and forgotten about, exactly like Cure 1, Shield Bash, Cover, etc.

You can have whatever implausible fantasy you'd like, I'm just saying that if you actually think they're going to add "Clemency but it's actually usable!" instead of just fixing Clemency to be actually useful, you're full of it. And like I said - making Clemency an oGCD while taking Sheltron off of the oath gauge LITERALLY IMPROVES PLD'S ABILITY TO SOLO OLD CONTENT ACROSS THE BOARD. It is *literally* giving you more of what you want, and you're still mad because you want to be able to cast Clemency one or two extra times in exchange for obliterating your DPS?

Come on, dude.

[Rithy255]

(Reply to above)

No it wouldn't Healers have ocgd and gcd heals that give the same purpose, It's never been "absurd", you don't get how having a consistent source of healing can be useful for solo content Especially going to be very useful in the most recent things such as Deep dungeons up and coming, clemency can be good in the variant dungeons (if you dont want to take a heal, lets say you take a raise and a dot), it can be useful when synching down to to do solo content, It can be useful in down time, Prog or emergencies to have that consistent heal, It's something you do not understand that clemency doesn't need to be a all purpose use ability.

I'm full of what? liking a ability that actually is unique and interesting, actually giving you a gcd choice (which yes in a lot of situations like hardcore raiding you don't really use often), again I don't get why it's so hard for you to understand that clemency can be a ability that doesn't need to effect optimal situations, Do you raise in Optimal situations? no It's a backup tool, Even Healers don't want to optimally GCD heal and a lot of them have so much OGCD healing combined but it's still nice to have a few gcd heals at a time (I agree cure 1 should just upgrade to cure 2 though as both have the same functionality)

Also, It depends what sort of old content and how often PLD's going to have access to a "OCD clemency" How much oath would clemency even cost and things like that, would determine how well it could replace it entirely in solo content, funny how you think it's a broken ability that's never useful though in it's current form it's not broken nor does it need to be "fixed" it's not a major issue with PLD, as I believe it shouldn't and doesn't effect any of PLD's current defensives and also yes plays apart of PLD's identity, Sorry for liking a ability (which others would agree with me) that generally fits PLD but doesn't need to be useful in every situation.

If you're afraid of clemency existing for space reasons, theirs so many changes I could list off that wouldn't even change pld but allow more space without removing it... If its so useless just remove it from your hotbar I guess? situation solves it self really, clemency shouldn't need to cost anything in terms of defensives

If you're going to do personal attacks and call me mad all the time I'm not going to reply again, I really don't appreciate it... I'm all for hearing out your opinions but I don't really want It to devolve into you just calling me mad and dismissing why I like the ability and think it's actually neat, not everyone's going to share the same opinion as you, I actually agree with a lot of your sentiment on how PLD does lack a OCD option the issue we have is changing clemency to fit that or just adding that without removing clemency, I really wouldn't understand why you'd be upset with my Idea but I guess I'm open to hear you out as long as you're actually trying to be respectful.

[AnotherPerson]

You can have whatever implausible fantasy you'd like, I'm just saying that if you actually think they're going to add "Clemency but it's actually usable!" instead of just fixing Clemency to be actually useful, you're full of it. And like I said - making Clemency an oGCD while taking Sheltron off of the oath gauge LITERALLY IMPROVES PLD'S ABILITY TO SOLO OLD CONTENT ACROSS THE BOARD. It is *literally* giving you more of what you want, and you're still mad because you want to be able to cast Clemency one or two extra times in exchange for obliterating your DPS?

Can you explain how having less casts of Clemency improves PLD's overall survival when they need more healing via raw potency? Oath Gauge only charges at 5 per auto attack, as opposed to MP gauge (which recharges naturally in addition to recharging on atonement, Expiacion, Riot Blade, Blade of Faith, Blade of Truth, and Blade of Valor. How are you planning on balancing the Oath gauge with Clemency when PLD has so much lossless healing? As it stands, 40-50 Oath gauge means PLD has less casts and flexibility, whereas 20-30 Oath Gauge would mean PLD is broken (up to 5000 to 7500 potency worth of healing).

oGCD just means it doesn't conflict with your GCD actions. However, having a reduced number of casts reduces the overall amount of healing. If your argument is changing Clemency to oGCD makes PLD have more survival, that's completely wrong because less overall potency =/= more survival. All it means is that Clemency can be used without DPS loss.

[Gserpent]

Can you explain how having less casts of Clemency improves PLD's overall survival when they need more healing via raw potency? Oath Gauge only charges at 5 per auto attack, as opposed to MP gauge (which recharges naturally in addition to recharging on atonement, Expiacion, Riot Blade, Blade of Faith, Blade of Truth, and Blade of Valor. How are you planning on balancing the Oath gauge with Clemency when PLD has so much lossless healing? As it stands, 40-50 Oath gauge means PLD has less casts and flexibility, whereas 20-30 Oath Gauge would mean PLD is broken (up to 5000 to 7500 potency worth of healing).

oGCD just means it doesn't conflict with your GCD actions. However, having a reduced number of casts reduces the overall amount of healing. If your argument is changing Clemency to oGCD makes PLD have more survival, that's completely wrong because less overall potency =/= more survival. All it means is that Clemency can be used without DPS loss.

If Sheltron doesn't cost gauge, it effectively means you get two Clemency casts per gauge on top of a Sheltron cast. That's better than the current standard of two Sheltrons and no Clemency casts.

[AnotherPerson]

If Sheltron doesn't cost gauge, it effectively means you get two Clemency casts per gauge on top of a Sheltron cast. That's better than the current standard of two Sheltrons and no Clemency casts.

No, that's for being lossless in DPS. As it stands currently, you get the current standard of 2 Sheltrons + 5 Clemency Casts (or more if you focus on regenerating MP) if you want to focus on survival. You only have 2 Sheltrons + no Clemency casts if you focus on DPS optimal gameplay.

That doesn't improve PLD's overall survivability because you trade more casts of Clemency with having lossless healing. You might as well put a separate oGCD healing skill for that if you want to increase PLD's overall survivability without DPS loss.

[Gserpent]

No, that's for being lossless in DPS. As it stands currently, you get the current standard of 2 Sheltrons + 5 Clemency Casts (or more if you focus on regenerating MP) if you want to focus on survival. You only have 2 Sheltrons + no Clemency casts if you focus on DPS optimal gameplay.

That doesn't improve PLD's overall survivability because you trade more casts of Clemency with having lossless healing. You might as well put a separate oGCD healing skill for that if you want to increase PLD's overall survivability without DPS loss.

Except you're never in any scenario where you need to actually halt DPS to pump Clemency. Not in any kind of content that actually matters.

And solo content doesn't matter, anyway, because other tanks are better at soloing stuff than PLD is, WAR especially. I think y'all are dramatically underestimating how much healing over time the combo finishers are... which PLD doesn't get. If PLD needs any added healing, it's on Royal Authority (or Atonement, I guess?)

[Sparkthor]

When I play Paladin i LOVE to have two charges of schiltron/intervene. It greatly help in raid content when you can protect yourself and your co tank on double/share TB. Clemency may be situationnal, but hell, it works fine. Moreover, people love having distinct tools in their kit what feel some jobs more unique, and when one of the biggest complain about the game is the homogeneisation (which is somehow true but necessary IMO).

If trully the PLD need more sustain, the best way to have it is to add another OGCD heal, or, if we didn't want to add something, put some heal on attonement or combo finisher.