Samurai is extremely oppressive to play against in any PvP scenario

[MysticFpx]

It's unreasonable to have to change my UI settings to show debuffs as 500x just to see if I have kuzushi applied, only to die instantly after because of the braindead limit break ignoring shield.

The class is built to be a complete piece of shit camper. Fight semi-normally until LB, proceed to hold Kuzushi until someone randomly hits you with an aoe or accidentally targets you, and you get a free kill.

Typical japanese company making the asian classes overpowered.

[Kansene]

I'd say samurai is more cheap than overpowered tbh, but I say the same about any one-shot gimmick.
Now if we're talking about frontline NIN on the other hand...

[Ransu]

AoE's triggering the buff is ridiculously lame, but that's about the only "oppressive" thing about it. Just mark them and Stun/Kill them when they have LB.

Also, your last comment is ridiculous. SAM isn't overpowered at all.

[BaroLlyonesse]

Also, your last comment is ridiculous. SAM isn't overpowered at all.

SAM is 100% overpowered. Compare it to MCH, who they determined Chainsaw to be 'too powerful' when it was a 3% chance to kill every eight actions, including waiting for recharges. That needed to be brought down to 95% damage, because a 3% chance of 100% damage was too much.

A single SAM can throw up Hissatu and then LB to 100% any number of people that touched him for 5s? Make it worth 20,000 damage, and a 3% chance of 100%, and it's almost balanced.

[Elfidan]

Yeah, but chainsaw is a regular rotation ability and Zan is a limit break. Also, you can survive Zan by hitting any shield ability or having it cast on you by a whm for instance. Now in FL it sucks but that's mostly because it's really hard to counter play. Maybe it's just me but when I see chainsaw up I'm actually looking for enemies bunched up in a line rather than a slot machine.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

SAM is 100% overpowered. Compare it to MCH, who they determined Chainsaw to be 'too powerful' when it was a 3% chance to kill every eight actions, including waiting for recharges. That needed to be brought down to 95% damage, because a 3% chance of 100% damage was too much.

A single SAM can throw up Hissatu and then LB to 100% any number of people that touched him for 5s? Make it worth 20,000 damage, and a 3% chance of 100%, and it's almost balanced.

The problem isn't one-shotting per se, the problem is that Chain Saw is a random low % chance. Nothing is more BS than getting insta-gibbed because you lucked a 1:33 chance roll, whereas you have a living and breathing chance against a Samurai using Zantetsuken if you have superior reaction time or awareness about the Samurai and Chiten. Also Zantetsuken is tied to the Limit Break charge, which is sadly not visible in Frontlines / RW.

Don't get me wrong, WHEN you get the Zantetsuken retaliation it is strong, but it has counter play. And that counter play has counterplay too if the Samurai uses Meikyo Shisui or if you chain Chiten after Guard for example.

What counterplay is there to a 3% chance (near) oneshot? Oh no MCH activated Analysis and has Chainsaw loaded, better play around that.

[BaroLlyonesse]

The problem isn't one-shotting per se, the problem is that Chain Saw is a random low % chance. Nothing is more BS than getting insta-gibbed because you lucked a 1:33 chance roll, whereas you have a living and breathing chance against a Samurai using Zantetsuken if you have superior reaction time or awareness about the Samurai and Chiten. Also Zantetsuken is tied to the Limit Break charge, which is sadly not visible in Frontlines / RW.

I would counter that nothing is more BS than getting insta-gibbed because a SAM moved into the clipped edge of AoE and can retaliate instantly for 100% damage against multiple people. If they wanted to balance that properly, the appropriate would be to give SAM a 3% chance as well, or have the 100% work on only one target and the rest take LB damage.

If I see a SAM with Guard that is not retreating, I know exactly what they are doing and not to aim at them; the SAM can react to MCH the exact same way by watching for Air Anchor Ready and knowing to rush to take them out. So yes, 'better play around that', the same way you play around a MNK DFA Kicker, or (before patch) a PLD+WHM, or any other current meta. If you have to ambush the former and keep a Reaper/Dancer LB to counter the latter, there's no reason why it should be an issue to see MCH, go 'that guy dies first', and then either have a kill on your side or on theirs.

The argument comes down to 'what was this job meant to do'. Before the DR change, MCH LB would drop at 50% or less, just like a NIN assassinate hop (with the exception that the NIN can just keep hopping if partnered with people who know to drop multiple AOE on a pack), and the seeming intent of MCH was to do exactly that: Massive damage on LB, and a chance to simply drop targets. It's evident that SAM and MCH were designed to have the same function in PvP at different ranges (don't close to SAM, close to MCH being the only difference), but when it came time to reevaluate, only one side got nerfed.

[EDIT:] tl;dr: SAM does not need 100% if MCH does not need it.

[Ransu]

SAM is 100% overpowered. Compare it to MCH, who they determined Chainsaw to be 'too powerful' when it was a 3% chance to kill every eight actions, including waiting for recharges. That needed to be brought down to 95% damage, because a 3% chance of 100% damage was too much.

A single SAM can throw up Hissatu and then LB to 100% any number of people that touched him for 5s? Make it worth 20,000 damage, and a 3% chance of 100%, and it's almost balanced.

Chainsaw is a rotational move. SAM LB will happen once a match, "maybe" twice if its a longer match, and in crystal you'll basically never see a SAM successfully LB anyone or at best they will get 1 person who wasn't paying attention.

Contrast that to the fact that on MCH I can get free kills left and right with their burst setups compared to SAM that has to chase everyone around with all their big hits being casted skills. SAM is not OP.

[Mistress_Irika]

CC pov
It's annoying to deal with on both ends. Sure, it sucks that they can one hit by a simple mechanic. On the other hand, because that's known people will generally leave you alone every time Chiten is activated making the mechanic annoying to proc. I had to switch strategies with how I used my lb since holding the LB for samurais only nets one use if the game doesn't go to overtime.

I don't use the LB for the cheesy mechanic. I use it to assassinate a back line target. Either the hp will disappear, or the entire mp bar will. Either way, I'm forcing a 5v4 to occur.