Add iLevel restrictions to Alliance Roulette

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Yeah I think ultimately the whole misconception of the frequency of CT raids on roulettes due to ilv cheese is in truth the most minor of contributors . What we have currently is fine and works for what is intended (although I still stand by the case of moving CT to msq roulette) and if you really have an issue of doing CT on roulette, nothing is stopping you from leaving. You have 3 strikes per day for doing it and most people dont mind taking one regardless.

Not from leaving once inside the duty. You can cancel your queue once it pops 3 times, but if you're already inside a duty and decide to bail, that's insta-30m penalty for you.

[Reinha]

Then when they see harder raids, they just simply take the 30min penalty instead. Well, the first guy at least. The rest get the free ticket out and get to requeue instantly for a very high chance at getting the ultra simple & quick run they want.

Good, they should pop the queue to a higher raid and leave instead of pulling other people to level 50 raids with their tricks. Cheesers get a penalty, a new queue time or a lower reward and people who didn't cheese get a normal reward. There are literally no downsides. A handful of people leaving a 24 man does not matter in the slightest. It happens all the time.

The solution with the least amount of potential issues is to siphon CT off into its own roulette and keep it with the rewards it does now for current alliance. People sick of CT get to stay away from it, people who want the ultra easy runs get to have them, and anyone on either side willing to put up with what the other roulette entails will get to double their rewards for the day. Wins all around.

False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Not from leaving once inside the duty. You can cancel your queue once it pops 3 times, but if you're already inside a duty and decide to bail, that's insta-30m penalty for you.

Im just speaking from experience. I often see disgruntled players leave the raid and take the penalty rather than just clear the content. People just rather waste their own time.

[Daeriion_Aeradiir]

Good, they should pop the queue to a higher raid and leave instead of pulling other people to level 50 raids with their tricks. Cheesers get a penalty, a new queue time or a lower reward and people who didn't cheese get a normal reward. There are literally no downsides. A handful of people leaving a 24 man does not matter in the slightest. It happens all the time.

I think you seriously fail to realize how little people care about the 30min penalty - people did it all the time pre-Praetorium /Castrum rework because people wanted to fish for Prae and 30mins was literally nothing. Or how the moment an extreme shows up in mentor roulette, you usually have some people bail. They'll queue at full ilvl so their reward is guaranteed to be maxed, then leave if its not an easy one. You aren't punishing them in the slightest, as much as you want to want to believe otherwise. Also like I said, it only affects the first person to leave. The rest of the people who were hoping for CT in the raid get a free out and zero punishment.

You also fail to realize that outside of tanks, the queue for alliance is only like 5mins long. a NIER raid can be 40mins. It'd literally be faster to drop the raid, re-queue and bank on literally anything else popping, since even with a re-queue + clear time of say, Srycus, it's still only 20mins, compared to NIER's double that.

Again, your idea has literally no affect on the people you want it to have an affect on. Cheesers will just queue at max ilvl instead for max reward, then leave if they don't like it since 30mins is literally nothing as a punishment, all because statistically, even with ilvl cheese negated, you're still likely to get CT 80% of the time anyway due to ilvl cheesing being such a minor issue compared to the other 5 factors all heavily biasing CT in the roulette and its a safe gamble to make. The only people your idea hurts at all are the innocent who have to deal with leavers, no matter how easy or uneasy it may be to re-fill their ranks. Even doubly so if its late at night and certain roles can be harder to find.

False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

Except they can't guarantee void ark, and Mhach would be a potential option since you can only queue for a roulette if you qualify for at least 2 instances, which would be a far cry from the ilvl cheese of CT/Srycus guaranteeing 2 ultra easy instances. Your statement also implies those people are willing to do 2 alliance raid roulettes a day, when most people I've heard from who ilvl cheese have varying degrees of 'I do it because I have limited playtime and want a quick instance'.

Plus, unlike CT that is forced mandatory for every player, ilvl cheese will have a much lesser impact on the non-CT roulette by virtue of what people has unlocked will play a much bigger role since everything is optional. If even one person you get matched with doesn't have Void Ark unlocked, you won't be seeing it.

People can try and 5000 iq play with their ideas all they want, but Occam's Razor is at play here. Especially when you factor in the fact the devs don't care about ilvl cheesing, since CT is the only raid series that is required by story and thus, are the only queues they want to make sure are constantly filled for new players. If they do any solution, they'll go with the easiest one; just make it its own roulette since its the least amount of time on their end, instead of having to create some complex system that will still be exploited easily anyhow.

[Reinha]

The only people your idea hurts at all are the innocent who have to deal with leavers, no matter how easy or uneasy it may be to re-fill their ranks. Even doubly so if its late at night and certain roles can be harder to find.

No "innocent" (lmao) is hurting when a couple of people leave an alliance roulette. The main thing is the cheesers pop something else than CT, what they do after that doesn't matter. It sounds like you think I care about what people do after leaving the instance but I don't.

Cheesers will just queue at max ilvl instead for max reward, then leave if they don't like it since 30mins is literally nothing as a punishment, all because statistically, even with ilvl cheese negated, you're still likely to get CT 80% of the time anyway

Nice try but you can have it both ways. Either cheesing works or it doesn't. If people were nearly guaranteed to get CT, they wouldn't bother cheesing. They cheese because it has an impact, and removing that impact is a good thing. I like to see more than CT raids. You're also contradicting yourself. Either there are some many cheesers that them leaving will cripple a 24 man party in which case cheesing has such a huge impact on the prevalence of CT raids that it alone creates an imbalance in the roulette, or there are only a few cheesers who don't have a big impact on queues and also wouldn't be missed if they leave an instance they don't like. Which is it?

[KDSilver]

Maybe "alliance roulette" is too much right now.
Maybe it should be spread like dungeon ?
"alliance 50/60 - 70/80/90"

At least less big surprise and people can avoid doing the first if tired of CT.
Since CT will always fill (since mandatory, relic, lowest raid ect...)...

[PirateRyanG]

Maybe "alliance roulette" is too much right now.
Maybe it should be spread like dungeon ?
"alliance 50/60 - 70/80/90"

At least less big surprise and people can avoid doing the first if tired of CT.
Since CT will always fill (since mandatory, relic, lowest raid ect...)...

The problem is that this may stop people from progressing through the story, since they need to do CT.

Separate it out and you don't get enough people queuing for CT? That is a storyline bottleneck.

The rewards would have to be tremendous to encourage people to encourage people to queue in the CT list, or you end up with a ton of aggravated players.

[Atelier-Bagur]

The problem is that this may stop people from progressing through the story, since they need to do CT.

Separate it out and you don't get enough people queuing for CT? That is a storyline bottleneck.

The rewards would have to be tremendous to encourage people to encourage people to queue in the CT list, or you end up with a ton of aggravated players.

Which is where MSQ roulette fits in, people only do it for the huge exp gain so if you add in CT then it shouldnt be a problem at all since theres always people leveling jobs or farming tomestones.

I would like that theyd increased the exp gain from it if they ever do that but Im thinking very simply here

[PyurBlue]

Still lacking any objection to the idea

I guess if you still don't have any counter argument, then my idea is pretty sound.

You don't get to pick and choose what you want to play AND get the reward

Only in the current system. You could pick and choose and get your reward if they changed the system. The roulette system does not have to be as restrictive as it is now to work. We don't owe the status quo anything, it's not special, and it certainly shouldn't be immune to change for the better.

I will agree to at least have CT be on MSQ roulette solely based on the fact that its required for msq.

But I dont think thisll ultimately solve the issue as people will still complain, heck even with what we have now I always see people complain in chat when we get one of the Ivalice raids or Dun Scaith when I get queued into them. Whos to say if they do arrange CT out of alliance roulette, that those older raids will also start to lose appeal and be in the same position as CT was?

CT is so different from the other alliance raids that this is unlikely. The jump in difficulty and time required from 50-60 is by far the biggest in the entire alliance series. Maybe this will change in the future, but FF14 is an evolving game anyway. If in the future the 60 alliances become a problem, we can come up with a solution to fix that.

You really, really enjoy saying the same things over and over again, don't you?

I say things relevant to the discussion. Show me where I'm wrong and then you'll hear something different.

I guess I should also add to this, so I'm not misinterpreted, that I realize I can't predict the future. I don't think my ideas are immune to holes or unintentional outcomes, but I do try to consider that when making suggestions. I also try to consider people on the other side. What I'm proposing should be fairly reasonable. Adding it to FF14 may require some changes for a whole bunch of reasons, but ultimately it shouldn't be too different from the original suggestion. With that said, finding and showing me errors I've made is only helpful, but they have to be genuine errors, not just things people don't like for no reason.

So tell me how your solution of giving people choices in regards to roulettes is going to help roulettes fulfil their purpose of filling in empty queues? Your idea of removing the boredom from roulettes would do more harm than good.

Like I said before, more enticing roulettes can increase participation. I don't participate in the alliance raid roulette currently because I can get more entertainment out of paying bills than running CT. I have multiple characters with multiple classes that I level, so by making alliance raid completely intolerable, the playerbase available to help fill queues is decreased.

If I could exclude all the level 50 raids, I think alliance might be worth trying again. And we know this isn't likely to negatively impact CT queues because so many things are lopsided in their favor.

Let's also not forget that the separation of roulettes, which is divided in an arbitrary manner, is essentially the same idea. If you only queue for leveling roulette exclusively, you're not filling normal raid queues. Do you really think adding a little more choice is going to cause the system to collapse? That's completely unrealistic.

You act like it's some sort of amazing solution, when in reality, you most likely just want to be able to do the quickest roulette possible and log out. You don't want to help others or contribute to the community. You want to help yourself to rewards you haven't earned.

A lot of effort for nothing? I don't see the point. If I wanted the quickest roulette possible, I could just use the ilvl system. So why would I waste my time here trying to promote a system that would only be helpful in avoiding the easy stuff, at least when it comes to alliance raids?

Literally what changes between CT getting its own roulette and me refusing to wear anything higher than Ironworks when queueing?

You have 3 strikes per day for doing it and most people dont mind taking one regardless.

Doesn't it say somewhere not to leave just because you don't like what you get? Even if it doesn't, leaving puts the party at a disadvantage. I guess in CT that disadvantage wouldn't even register because of how trivial the difficulty is, but technically it's still there.

False. Ilvl cheesers will do it again to get only Void Ark and then everyone is stuck there every day. The best thing to do is to discourage cheesing altogether by making it less rewarding than not cheesing.

Well if that becomes a problem, we could further divide the alliance raids, or just give people a roulette blacklist option to balance things out. There are multiple solutions to the problem.

[PirateRyanG]

Which is where MSQ roulette fits in, people only do it for the huge exp gain so if you add in CT then it shouldnt be a problem at all since theres always people leveling jobs or farming tomestones.

I would like that theyd increased the exp gain from it if they ever do that but Im thinking very simply here

But how would you allocate people in a MSQ roulette?

Because you now have two options with varying numbers of people:

1. A set of 3 dungeons that require 4 people
2. A set of 3 dungeons that require 24 people

When people queue, do you send them into the 24 group or the 4 group?

A system would need to be designed where people currently going through the story get priority on the queue. But, this could always leave people waiting about. If you have 3 story players (for instance) queuing for each individual raid, and then 3 story players come along that want to queue for the dungeons, you have 81 spots that need to be filled (this is assuming that there are no issues with party composition) for everybody to get into a position where they can continue the story. This could result in some rather hefty queues for some players.

Getting into a 4 man dungeon now as a DPS is lengthy, but not too bad. Now, imagine if you were competing against 24-mans too.