Why do Raid Buffs even exist?

[Spigg]

A lot of discussion has been going around about both job design and job balance. Much of the discussion around job design has been veering toward the subject of the focus on 2 minute burst windows, while job balance discussions focus on the recent controversy of P8S.

Looking at these two subjects, they seem kind of paradoxical. If a job veers from the 2 minute burst windows(like Paladin), it's damage suffers. But if the job conforms to the 2 minute burst windows, like most jobs have been doing since the beginning of Endwalker, the player base (in my opinion, rightfully) calls it out as the dumbing down of job design and mechanics.

With this in mind, I really have to ask, why in the world does a job like REAPER have a raid buff? Why does Summoner have a raid buff? With Dragoon, maybe I can understand Dragon Sight, but there is no excuse for it to have an ability like Battle Litany. For these jobs, having a raid buff does nothing to contribute to the job identity or mechanics(At least, not in a way that could be transferred to a different ability). In my opinion, no job should have a DPS buff that applies to other raid members except for two other jobs.

The only two jobs that should ever have buffs that affect other party member's dps are Bard and Dancer, though even they need to go through a few tweaks. DPS buffs should not be bursts like they currently are, but something these two jobs work to constantly maintain through their rotation. Having bursty raid buffs helps to promote the current shift we are seeing in job design, and trap the developers into being unable to change from this current state.

It's okay to have some jobs that are bursty. I like jobs like NIN, where you have massive downtime followed by massive activity. But I also like jobs that feel like they are constantly active, and require my constant attention outside of every two minutes. However jobs like this are being killed by the two minute buff meta, and I really hope that SE does something about it to allow more unique job design.

Anyway, this was just a massive opinion dump, feel free to disagree/point out areas I was wrong.

[MagiusNecros]

They design everything around 2 minute burst. It's a problem. We need classes that do 2 minute burst. Others with 1 minute bursts and those with small 30 second bursts or just damage sustain.

I think they design it this way for newer players so everything is streamlined and easy to pick up and play.

[Spigg]

They design everything around 2 minute burst. It's a problem. We need classes that do 2 minute burst. Others with 1 minute bursts and those with small 30 second bursts or just damage sustain.

I think they design it this way for newer players so everything is streamlined and easy to pick up and play.

Agree. I've seen fanmade jobs designed entirely around weapon skills and almost entirely ignore cooldowns. I couldn't help but think how impossible such a thing would be in the current state of the game.

[Mithron]

I like some jobs having job identity through buffing the damage of others, as you mentioned: BRD, DNC and NIN are prime examples of this. I also feel this is core identity to RDM as RDM was a party buffer in FF1 as well. As for everyone else... Making them all selfish DPS with very unique and individualized rotations would do wonders for this game IMO.

[Spigg]

I like some jobs having job identity through buffing the damage of others, as you mentioned: BRD, DNC and NIN are prime examples of this. I also feel this is core identity to RDM as RDM was a party buffer in FF1 as well. As for everyone else... Making them all selfish DPS with very unique and individualized rotations would do wonders for this game IMO.

Agree. Though I believe it would be best for the buffer type to stay in the range subclass, and something like trick attack would sadly have to go... Is what I would say if SE hadn't aready axed it themselves.

That being said, I'm not too educated on the history of these jobs in other FF games, and maybe there are good ways for jobs like RDM to be a party buffer without contributing to the problem that is the 2min buff meta.

[Mithron]

Agree. Though I believe it would be best for the buffer type to stay in the range subclass, and something like trick attack would sadly have to go... Is what I would say if SE hadn't aready axed it themselves.

That being said, I'm not too educated on the history of these jobs in other FF games, and maybe there are good ways for jobs like RDM to be a party buffer without contributing to the problem that is the 2min buff meta.

I think we can keep party buffs like Trick Attack (Mug) and Embolden, perhaps even on 2 minute cooldowns, as they've been in the game honestly since HW and SB without feeling annoying. As long as they keep rDPS and aDPS relatively balanced between the raid damage buffers and selfish DPS, the differences should only be "flavor" and with proper balance and job design, would not feel homogenized, boring, or rigid. Pressing those buttons may still be required "on cooldown" for optimization, but it's okay if the few party buffer jobs are more rigid than others in that respect. Because it would only be for those jobs and some people like that playstyle, rather than every single job feeling so rigid. Perhaps your rotations would even change depending on who's in the party for further complexity, optimization, and mastery over your job.

[Shikiseki]

Yeah this sounds nice to new players... in theory.

Most new players that run content like 8man trials and raids have a very high chance to die a couple of times, basically kissing your rotation and damage goodbye for the remainder of the run.

The worst part are dungeons now as mixing aoe with ST rotations just plain out sucks and you'll rarely sync with your party as some ppl don't use their buffs (cause you'll want them for the boss right?)

[Spigg]

Yeah this sounds nice to new players... in theory.

Most new players that run content like 8man trials and raids have a very high chance to die a couple of times, basically kissing your rotation and damage goodbye for the remainder of the run.

The worst part are dungeons now as mixing aoe with ST rotations just plain out sucks and you'll rarely sync with your party as some ppl don't use their buffs (cause you'll want them for the boss right?)

Big agree. Though I made this post with job design variety in mind, that is another good point. Nothing feels worse than dying and enjoying a scuffed rotation for the rest of the battle. I guess that is inevitable for some jobs, but it feels especially bad when you miss out on raid buff windows.

[Rithy255]

I dislike how every melee has some lazy "x%" raid buff on a 2minute window it feels pretty uninspired lol

Bard & Dancer do raid buffs really good, while having a "burst raid buff" they also have a consistent buff for their party member(s), I actually like how those jobs are.

RDM/SMN I like how smn's is longer and that, but again Those raid buffs don't really exist to serve any unique purpose.

I think a big problem with current design is that it effects "good groups" and optimization, Idm some raid buff optimisations between good groups, good groups should be rewarded for good play/communication, I feel like 2minute raid buffs, make raid buffs really boring.

>How to "fix" Raid buffs.
>Revert a lot of the raid buff timer changes, Trick should be on 60 seconds, brotherhood 90, ect. Make raid buffs unique, maybe some ones that last longer or something as well. Make em a pain (sometimes a loss) to perfectly synch.

[Tulzscha]

I can't speak for the devs but so many jobs having group buffs further discourages duplicate jobs, punishes everyone for getting out of sync, weakens jobs with them (discouraging solo and light party play where optional), and encourages groups to coordinate especially when mechs get in the way. And I suppose it would make balancing easier when every job follows the same cycle.

I think the game would be more fun without them.