I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ForsakenRoe]

If we get bigger changes in the next expansion that would be nice, but the game has been fun for me (and millions of others) for 3 years, so I understand if the devs think it's better to stay the course and keep the fundamentals of each role unchanged.

One of the big points is that the role was not on 'this course' for SIX years. As it stands, it was 'not the way it is' for longer than it has been 'the way it is'. So if there's any room for 'I understand if the devs want to keep this direction', surely it applies to the previous ARR-SB design path just as equally, if not moreso due to the longer duration it was being followed?

Yes ARR and HW had 'clunky' aspects, mainly Cleric Stance, we've been over this many many times. Once they changed healer damage to scale off of Mind instead of INT, the 'clunk' of doing damage as healer was solved. Cleric Stance became a simple 'press this to do more damage' button you'd press as you do Presence of Mind, or Chain Strat, or Divination in current game. Clunk gone. Also, what one person finds to be 'clunky' another finds to be 'opportunities for optimization', just look how many people preferred old SMN, not just 'in spite of the crap pet AI' but also even 'because of the crap pet AI', being able to work around it gave them extra damage in places that you wouldnt expect to find optimization opportunities.

It could also be argued that there is just as much clunky stuff now as there was back then, just in different places. It's now possible to ghost Whispering Dawn/Fey Illumination by using it at the tail end of Seraph's duration, Seraph locks you out of Fey Blessing for the duration (a simple '300p AOE heal'), Dissipation, Fey Union and Seraph are ALL mutually exclusive, you can't pair any two up with each other. WHM is now forced to overheal on purpose and blow Lilies it might need for healing later, in order to put a Misery into raidbuffs cos 'its more damage' when the system's meant to just be damage refund, not damage positive, AST, well Astrodyne still exists despite it's pathetic contribution to your total RDPS. Horoscope requires a GCD heal to be 'a potency worth a damn', which we're always trying to avoid using. Synastry STILL exists, after all this time, SOMEhow it survived all the pruning (god I hope it dies in 7.0 rework). The only healer that avoids clunk IMO is Sage, and even then there's some stuff that is odd about it, mainly Toxicon. But the next healer you ask could point out things that I see as clunk, as being chances for optimization, some people might like Astrodyne, some might like that Dissipation/Union/Seraph enforce a sort of 'healing CD rotation' to use them in sequence, some people might think Toxicon is a good system as it gives SGE more movement options. 'Clunk' is subjective. It's why we see people lament the loss of SB DRK, or 4.1 WAR (like me).

Oh good, Firemage is shitting up the healer forums now.

Now? They've been here for a while, they just stopped for a few days for some reason. Maybe they caught a ban for a bit, maybe they found a side project hassling NeoGAF or Roblox or something who knows and who cares

I have literally said that if they return Miasma and Bane to Scholar (while not pruning anything like Energy Drain) I would never come back to these forums because I would be happy enough. Many times, in fact. Because literally anything would be more entertaining than having 1 AoE button and 1 DoT 1 Nuke like every other healer. It doesn't have to be much, but ANYTHING would be better than what we have on 100% of the healers in this game.

Sorry, having more than one DOT and one nuke is against the design the dev team is following, if you don't like falling asleep as you press Glare for 11 GCDs in a row, you can always just play a different role /s

For the avoidance of confusion, I like having 'extra stuff' to manage. I play healer not just to heal, but to 'help my team reach the success condition in any way I can', which includes killing the enemy with my damage. If I'm using 10% Mit to save my team from raidwides like Kerachole or Soil, well, the boss being dead is 100% Mit so it's the most effective Mit in the game, right? Similarly, I used to main Tank in SB, because it wasn't just 'eat hits so party doesn't, mitigate with CDs', there was also the StanceDance minigame of 'can I survive this while not in Tank Stance' with the payoff being 'you do 65% of the damage of the DPS classes'. And if we couldn't survive a TB (unlikely, considering Holmgang was 3min back then), we could use Tank Stance as an emergency CD. WAR was a great example of this, as you could swap back to Defiance, Equilibrium to regain the HP you're missing up to the new maximum (Defiance added max HP, instead of damage reduction), then slam Unchained to negate it's damage penalty. Still not as ideal as staying in Deliverance the whole time, as you'd be losing out on the ability to Fell Cleave and the crit rate effect of the Deliv Gauge, but this kind of trick is a means to express skill. I quit tanking in the first tier of SHB due to the huge changes of tank Stances being made passive, Emnity becoming a complete non-mechanic, and the reduction of my old main DRK into 'lmao WAR2'.

[MintnHoney]

Like you would know, casul

[FireMage]

Oh good, Firemage is shitting up the healer forums now.

You should be grateful I'm here to educate you and yours, troll

[ty_taurus]

You should be grateful I'm here to educate you and yours, troll

Your opinion is like your reproductive organ: you’re entitled to have yours, but if I don't want to see it and you shove it in my face and we’ve got a problem.

[Aravell]

I have to ask the people vehemently against healers getting more complexity, "How does it negatively affect you in any way when the skill ceiling of healers goes up?", keep in mind, everybody here is asking for the raising of the skill CEILING not the skill FLOOR, as the skill floor is the same, how does it negatively affect anyone in any way?

Do not use the same tired excuse of "Oh, but if they have more dps buttons, they'll heal less!", that's nonsense and you know it. Even with the current oversimplified kit, people can still die to lack of healing.

So why is it that when a tank doesn't mitigate and dies to a tankbuster, we say "The tank messed up, they're at fault."? But when a healer miscalculates and someone dies to damage, we instead have to say "Clearly we must gut the healer role because it's too hard.", why is that?

[ty_taurus]

I have to ask the people vehemently against healers getting more complexity, "How does it negatively affect you in any way when the skill ceiling of healers goes up?", keep in mind, everybody here is asking for the raising of the skill CEILING not the skill FLOOR, as the skill floor is the same, how does it negatively affect anyone in any way?

Do not use the same tired excuse of "Oh, but if they have more dps buttons, they'll heal less!", that's nonsense and you know it. Even with the current oversimplified kit, people can still die to lack of healing.

So why is it that when a tank doesn't mitigate and dies to a tankbuster, we say "The tank messed up, they're at fault."? But when a healer miscalculates and someone dies to damage, we instead have to say "Clearly we must gut the healer role because it's too hard.", why is that?

A few of the antagonists that regurgitate the same tired and debunked arguments have openly stated that they want to have one button to mash and still perform at high optimization and be seen as good healers without having to put in the effort. Here's an example from over on the echo chamber thread from a while back:

Don't worry, you have me for that. I don't feel bad about it. Because I feel like at this point I've seen every single angle on the Sylphie attack vector. I'm beyond over it and uninterested in a "good faith discussion" about it. Because there really isn't common ground. You see, every discussion in this vein starts seemingly neutral. I want X, they want Y, there's a vague attempt to describe a world where X and Y have their time in the sun. But push them on it even a little bit and they start stamping their feet and revealing what they actually want: not X. They don't want Y. They want -not X-. Suggest a skill ceiling and the wailing and gnashing of teeth begins.

These people don't want low skill floors. They want nonexistent skill ceilings. They don't want accessible content, not really. What they want is healing to be an easy path to free stuff. Paying attention to your job's resources is bad. Even the existence of a suboptimal-but-still-present GlareMedica2 rotation that could satisfy the zero interactivity isn't enough. They want the lazy no-thought gameplay to be the optimal gameplay. They don't want to climb the mountain before them. They want to bulldoze it down, walk into the rubble, and declare they're at the peak now. They want an easy job that they can be told they're masters of by dint of unlocking the job stone.

Prod literally any Sylphie who claims they sympathize with the desire for more complex gameplay and that's the tantrum you're going to get. Every single time.

Truth time. This is how I feel. I guess I am a slyphie...

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Now? They've been here for a while, they just stopped for a few days for some reason. Maybe they caught a ban for a bit, maybe they found a side project hassling NeoGAF or Roblox or something who knows and who cares.

The guy literally warrants themself a wiki page dedicated to crowning their flickering existence. I should say I’m amazed to witness such scalding spectacle in real time, as until quite recently I’ve only heard of anecdotes.

[Semirhage]

You should be grateful I'm here to educate you and yours, troll

My gratitude eagerly awaits you saying anything in the same zip code as intelligent. Please do enlighten us oh wise teacher, about how 111111111111111 is the natural state of healers. I'll wait.

[ty_taurus]

My gratitude eagerly awaits you saying anything in the same zip code as intelligent. Please do enlighten us oh wise teacher, about how 111111111111111 is the natural state of healers. I'll wait.

I think this is a type of knowledge akin to that of an eldritch monstrosity. It's clearly speaking something deep and ancient, and our mortal brains are mentally incapable of comprehending such cosmic horrors, and simply trying to would drive our human minds to literal insanity and death, if not cultism should we survive.

[Aravell]

A few of the antagonists that regurgitate the same tired and debunked arguments have openly stated that they want to have one button to mash and still perform at high optimization and be seen as good healers without having to put in the effort.

If that's how those who supports the current healer design feels, then that explains why there's an ongoing healer shortage at the moment.

I can't imagine seeing a skill ceiling as harmful, leaving healers stagnant with no ceiling to strive for is hardly a good philosophy. Feels like it attracts lazy people since you don't have to do any sort of optimisation to achieve peak performance, just need to mash that filler button as many times as the top players.