I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[Llynethil]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

[Nizzi]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

He is wrong. An AST player solo-healed DSR. Their most used button? Fall Malefic. "just give us more to heal!" is not the solution for 1 button spam at all. Tank self healing also is only an issue in casual content, not savage or above.

[ASkellington]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

We've gone over this already.

They are not going to increase the healing requirements to make all of the healing tools we have USEFUL. See going from Shb to EW. I still don't use have my kit in most content.

Second, healers should get more dps because see my quote below and the devs themselves want this game to be LESS MMO and more SINGLE PLAYER and healers have two (2) primary DPS buttons for 86 levels in content that once again, does not push them to use all of their healing tools outside of the 1%. (ultimate)

They need more dps buttons. Period. SE needs to suck it up and remove some healing and give it.

[flowerfairy]

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

Quality over quantity. I want healer kits to have meaningful unique tools that can interact with each other. What is the difference between Indom and Fey Blessing, or Tetra and Afflatus Solace and Cure II? It's all just copy pasted crap and the only thing your braincell has to think about is "use the one that costs less DPS first". We don't need an abnormal amount of healing tools, we already have the ones that work. I want the powerful oGCD heals to be cutdown and limited in cooldowns so we have to rely more on our GCD heals. And what do you replace the cut out oGCD heals with? A proper downtime rotation. (Of course, for some jobs, it isn't as simple and just taking out heals, and they would need a real rework.)

I also don't want "more to heal". A fight requiring me to spam GCD heals and use oGCD heals on cooldown is no more interesting than Glarespam. But what I do want is more interesting situations to heal in. Unpredictable attacks, random groups of party members taking damage, boss autoattacks that can crit and go through casting, etc. However, this stuff goes against Squeenix's current raid design philosophy and I think has a lower chance of being considered than just changing the 4 healer jobs. I'd love to have both, but I want the healer jobs to be fixed first.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

[...]More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

Lmao "giving us more to heal".

I don't think veteran healer will refuse that entirely, maybe? If that happens however, I can already see more people throwing hissy fit in dungeons against healers because the random sylphie healer can no longer heal with Freecure/Physick/Medica II/Cure II spam without the help of current tank's self sustenance.

What about vet healers? The moment we healed what's needed, back to 1 2 1 1 1 1 1 we go again. Yaaaay how stimulating.

[ty_taurus]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

Which of the following do you honestly think makes more sense from a design standpoint:

1. Rework the 4 healers to have fun and meaningful gameplay in all forms of content from solo instances in the MSQ all the way up to ultimate level content.

OR

2. Redesign every single solo instance, FATE, and encounter that has been created since ARR was released 10 years ago to provide enough damage to make healers spend more time using their healing resources than their DPS ones.

How about you tell me how you'd allocate the time and resources to accomplish that objective. Go on, I'll wait.

[Beddict]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

I need you to explain something then: why are Tanks allowed to have a DPS rotation? By your logic, Tanks don't need it at all since they aren't DPS, they're Tanks. The responsibility of the Tank is to hold aggro, position the boss properly so DPS can get uptime, and mitigate damage taken through defensive cooldowns. That's it, that is all a Tank needs to do, and yet you've got PLD with their Physical and Magic phases, WAR spamming Fell Cleave and Inner Chaos, DRK vomitting oGCDs everywhere, and GNB with their Gnashing Fang/Continuation combo and more. Since none of that actually contributes to the Tank Role, then wouldn't it be in SE's best interest to remove all those abilities and simplify Tanks to the four required offensive actions?

1. Single Target Spam
2. AoE Spam
3. DoT
4. Range Attack

That right there would allow a Tank to focus purely on Tanking, completely removing the distraction caused by those pesky DPS buttons. In fact, removing those buttons would be a boon for a Tank because they'd get even more mitigation buttons! Think of how much more they could help out Healers if they were reducing party damage even more! Wouldn't that be absolutely swell?

Obvious sarcasm at the end aside, your logic is bullshit. Tanks are allowed to focus on their Role responsibility while also having engaging gameplay (to a point, WAR makes me fall asleep), but Healers are kneecapped and fed the whole "heALers arE SupPOSeD TO HEaL" garbage constantly. It's a complete double standard, and I would love to hear you justify it. And just to get the obvious counter out of the way right now: I am not saying Healers need combos, just something a little extra. A frequent suggestion is giving WHM a Thundercloud-style proc where Dia procs Banish or something. Just a tiny bit of interactivity in the kit to spice up the downtime. Explain to me why something as simple as that is forbidden from Healers while Tanks are out there with proper DPS rotations.

[IDontPetLalas]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

I would dispute this, there is no other game that I have played in which healers are reduced to hitting 2 DPS buttons so frequently while being able to keep a group healed when necessary. Secondly, healers do not only do group content , so in solo content , more DPS options typically ARE the best options .

I don't disagree with having tank solo healing adjusted according to dungeon content difficulty however I doubt that they would be able to /willing to invest into that. Also as you point out they would be too afraid of having tanks really not like that for a number of reasons.

[Liam_Harper]

He ain't wrong though, you want more complex dps rotaion, play a dps then.

Thing they should do instead is remove all tank self healing, which is never gonna happen because tanks will all throw a hissyfit over this, but they made a huge mistake giving them way to much self healing, so that the player that actually has to heal .... only has to do so when there's raidwide aoe's, when the one person who is taking the most damage and should be healed by you never needs it, never understood that design logic honestly.
Or make it so that their self healing is reduced by 90% when inside a dungeon/raid zone, so they can still have it everywhere else; I dunno, but it needs to go if you want healers to be mor engaging to play.

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

And here we go with the usual nonsense.

"If you want engaging gameplay, ditch your favorite role". - No thanks. If you want one-dimensional gameplay with a single focus, you go play dps. We play healer because we enjoy being a flexible support.

"They should make tanks more boring to justify keeping healers boring" - Great, sounds exciting. Tank sustain is not a bad thing. How about just making things hit harder so tanks are rewarded for using that sustain well?

"We don't need more dps buttons, requiring more healing done is the magic fix!" - We've been here a million times. Yes, increase healing needed, absolutely. But it's not a fix. Content that will require a newer healer to spam heals constantly at min ilv during prog (the baseline) won't even require healing a third of the time for a geared veteran in a good group with a mitigation plan. The better you are, the more downtime you have. It's a massive difference. Even in Ultimate healers have a ton of downtime. You should be rewarded for playing better, not punished with boredom.

[ForsakenRoe]

More dps is the wrong solution because that's not the point of rolling healer, those buttons should just be there to have something to do while no healing is needed to throw in once and a while, so in order to fix it is for there to require more healing done, which is never gonna happen this expansion anyway because the devs are to afraid to do anything like that mid expansion.

You're wrong on every level here, the devs are not too afraid to 'increase healing required' mid expansion, as they did it for this tier. The result? PF's got a massive shortage of healers, to the point where Yoshi-P asked 'please can some non healer mains play healer pleaaaaase'. If that doesn't show every 'we need more healing required' type how horribly wrong they are, I don't know what will. Increasing the level of complexity on the DPS side of healers is the least intrusive, most casual friendly, most veteran-satisfying, most skill-expression-allowing solution to the very simple-to-solve problem. We only have to have this whole song and dance about 'yeh but what if we tried X instead' because 'healers should only heal' players keep trying to muddy the waters, so their easybreezy role of 'press medica 2 occasionally' EX dungeon roulette gameplay can dodge the bullet for another patch. Veterans won't mind the extra complexity (and will welcome it), casuals won't even notice it. Others have posed the question 'why do tanks get a fun rotation and healers dont' but I've tried that one in the past, and every 'i play healer to heal' I've tried to get an answer from either dodges, refuses to answer, genuinely believes that tanks should have a more fun rotation and healers shouldnt (for whatever reason), or the stupidest take i've seen yet, that 'yes tanks should also be lobotomized down to two buttons that sounds lovely'.

So instead, I've taken to asking a different question: What other modern multiplayer game has a healer/support role, where they are specifically designed to ONLY heal? I don't mean 'oh Mercy in OW spends 95% of the time healing' because she has a pistol too, the option to do damage is there. Besides that though, most of the other healers in that game (from what I've heard, I don't play) have interplay between damaging and healing. Classic WoW has skills like Judgement of Light, or wanding the bosses to restore mana via Judgement of Wisdom. There's a boss in Naxx (vanilla) called Loatheb, that prevents you from healing after casting one healing skill, for 60 seconds. In the Wrath version it changes to 16s of 'cant heal' and 4s of 'can heal', from what I understand. Are you seriously telling me that healers should, in the vanilla version of the fight, press their one heal, then sit there with their finger up their backside for 58 seconds waiting for the debuff to fall off, instead of, idk, throwing wand shots or autoattacking with staff bonks or something? Retail WOW has M+, where healers contributing to damage is a massively important factor in whether you time the key or not. So, my assumption is, these 'i play healer to heal' players played one specific expansion of WOW, probably Cata or Mists, where the dev team there decided 'hey we need to make healers have more challenge, lets jack the healing required to stupid high levels' and caused the 'Cata Heroic mass healer shortage incident'.

I would love to see how fast I get reported for playing Apex Legends ranked and refusing to shoot my gun as Lifeline, cos 'im the team medic stop dictating my playstyle'. For an analogy, imagine you and 3 other people are moving something heavy, a wardrobe or such. That's your dungeon team of 4. Moving the heavy wardrobe and doing a dungeon run are both 'team efforts'. Refusing to do damage as a healer, in a game that is very specifically designed around very large amounts of 'healer DPS uptime', is the equivalent of one person not only not helping to carry the wardrobe, but sitting on top of it and making the whole job harder for the other 3.