I'm bored when I heal because I need more complex DPS rotations

[ForsakenRoe]

What I see is that some people don't enjoy playing healer because they find it boring or unfun. I don't understand why anyone would force themselves to play something they find boring or unfun. This isn't dismissive or baiting, it's a simple solution to a problem. Players picking a class they find more fun is certainly more attainable than the devs redesigning an entire role, especially after reworks. On that note, I personally love how simple the healer rotation is, it's the main reason I like healing, because I don't like optimising dps.

We play healer for a variety of reasons, one of which might well be, to paraphrase Grandpa Abe Simpson, 'I played healer when I didn't find it boring or unfun, when they had several DOTs in SB etc. But then they changed what 'fun' was, and I no longer enjoyed the role. Beware, or it'll happen to youuuuuu'. We force ourselves to play a role we don't find fun in the hopes that it will become fun again, or because our statics need us to play the role, or just simply because despite how much the role changed, we would enjoy DPS or Tank even less.

The bit in bold is absolutely hilarious (and sad), as it is completely true. Why didn't players just pick a DPS class to play, instead of complaining that 'its too hard to juggle healing AND doing damage'. We shouldn't have had the role simplified as much as it has been in the first place, yet here we are, and somehow this 'new direction' for healers is 'the normal' and what us boomers remember is forgotten, so when we ask to go back to towards 'the original design', we're met with 'play something else, this is how it is'. What it 'is', wasn't always 'is'. If the devs had actually followed what you said and I highlighted in bold, we probably wouldn't be in the mess we're in now. But they decided they wanted to dumb the role down to chase a casual playerbase, who have shown no interest in healing, trying to persuade them, no lets be real, bribe them into trying the role with the promise of fast queues and zero stress gameplay. And the fairweather players they chased turned out to be fairweather indeed, and bail on the role anyway. All the change has really done is exchange veterans/hardcores for newbies/causals, and it's worked out to be a zerosum change. Nothing gained, just gameplay depth lost.

If you like the role for how simple the rotation is, good for you. But that does not give you the right to decide that there should be no extra room for optimization added to the role. RPR can get by in most fights by just Enshrouding whenever they hit 50 Red Gauge. That's fine, if they want to play that way, heck I do it too because I don't main the class enough to care otherwise. But for the people who want to push their gameplay to the next level, there's Double and Triple Communio. DRG can just hit it's stuff on CD, go into Life as soon as they have 2 eyes, etc. But for the optimizers, they can delay Life to better line up with their buff windows. PLD is referred to by the term 'spreadsheet gaming' for a reason. I want the same room for skill expression to exist for healers, as it does for Tanks and DPS. And balance depending, you could play the 'Spam Glare (or Broil in your case by the looks of it), refresh DOT when it falls off' style and be almost as efficient as the 'fully optimized' rotation. My WHM idea would have you doing about 2% less efficiency compared to 'my WHM idea if you were optimizing it', that's within Crit Variance range. If I can do the maths to get it that close, SE sure as hell can.

[Leonerdo]

May I politely disagree. When I want something more challenging, I'll try blind prog. Or just try to carry some PF groups.

If I want something new I'll play a new job. Or new role. Or new game.

I don't think FFXIV needs to change it's formula for my sake, when there's tons of new players just trying to get through their first Savage tier without deaths. And the devs are probably busy trying to make several types of content every 4 months.

If we get bigger changes in the next expansion that would be nice, but the game has been fun for me (and millions of others) for 3 years, so I understand if the devs think it's better to stay the course and keep the fundamentals of each role unchanged.

Note: On the off-chance that anyone has seen my infrequent comments here, this is a departure from my previous opinion. I don't think there are enough low-cost changes they could make that would satisfy the intrepid green-DPS players (typed with affection, not malice). And unfortunately there's other more important stuff to work on. (More Bozja-style content please. Or Criterion dungeons that fill a similar mid-core niche.)

[IDontPetLalas]

May I politely disagree. When I want something more challenging, I'll try blind prog. Or just try to carry some PF groups.

If I want something new I'll play a new job. Or new role. Or new game.

I don't think FFXIV needs to change it's formula for my sake, when there's tons of new players just trying to get through their first Savage tier without deaths. And the devs are probably busy trying to make several types of content every 4 months.

If we get bigger changes in the next expansion that would be nice, but the game has been fun for me (and millions of others) for 3 years, so I understand if the devs think it's better to stay the course and keep the fundamentals of each role unchanged.

Note: On the off-chance that anyone has seen my infrequent comments here, this is a departure from my previous opinion. I don't think there are enough low-cost changes they could make that would satisfy the intrepid green-DPS players (typed with affection, not malice). And unfortunately there's other more important stuff to work on. (More Bozja-style content please. Or Criterion dungeons that fill a similar mid-core niche.)

That's your opinion , some of us disagree, and labelling those people as "intrepid green-DPS" seems rather disingenuous irrespective of whether you add your disclaimer.

I understand that you could consider other changes more important to you, you may not even seen that any changes are needed. However for those people who do want changes, those being discussed here could potentially be introduced with other changes as job changes on various scales are typically are introduced with other content changes . However, as neither you nor I know if these changes are "low cost" for SE, we don't know how they justify these requests, that's really not our role though is it? We really should think about explaining what we do or do not like.

Stating basically that the devs know best is a bit humorous given that the devs have rolled back a number of job design changes recently, and have a history of reworks that haven't always succeeded that well. Not to knock them in the slightest, it's a complicated task, but some people would say that there have already been some drastic changes to the healer jobs over the years, and after the last decision "staying the course" and leaving healers to stagnate wouldn't be wise.

[Nizzi]

I don't think there are enough low-cost changes they could make that would satisfy the intrepid green-DPS players (typed with affection, not malice)

I have literally said that if they return Miasma and Bane to Scholar (while not pruning anything like Energy Drain) I would never come back to these forums because I would be happy enough. Many times, in fact. Because literally anything would be more entertaining than having 1 AoE button and 1 DoT 1 Nuke like every other healer. It doesn't have to be much, but ANYTHING would be better than what we have on 100% of the healers in this game.

[ForsakenRoe]

If we get bigger changes in the next expansion that would be nice, but the game has been fun for me (and millions of others) for 3 years, so I understand if the devs think it's better to stay the course and keep the fundamentals of each role unchanged.

One of the big points is that the role was not on 'this course' for SIX years. As it stands, it was 'not the way it is' for longer than it has been 'the way it is'. So if there's any room for 'I understand if the devs want to keep this direction', surely it applies to the previous ARR-SB design path just as equally, if not moreso due to the longer duration it was being followed?

Yes ARR and HW had 'clunky' aspects, mainly Cleric Stance, we've been over this many many times. Once they changed healer damage to scale off of Mind instead of INT, the 'clunk' of doing damage as healer was solved. Cleric Stance became a simple 'press this to do more damage' button you'd press as you do Presence of Mind, or Chain Strat, or Divination in current game. Clunk gone. Also, what one person finds to be 'clunky' another finds to be 'opportunities for optimization', just look how many people preferred old SMN, not just 'in spite of the crap pet AI' but also even 'because of the crap pet AI', being able to work around it gave them extra damage in places that you wouldnt expect to find optimization opportunities.

It could also be argued that there is just as much clunky stuff now as there was back then, just in different places. It's now possible to ghost Whispering Dawn/Fey Illumination by using it at the tail end of Seraph's duration, Seraph locks you out of Fey Blessing for the duration (a simple '300p AOE heal'), Dissipation, Fey Union and Seraph are ALL mutually exclusive, you can't pair any two up with each other. WHM is now forced to overheal on purpose and blow Lilies it might need for healing later, in order to put a Misery into raidbuffs cos 'its more damage' when the system's meant to just be damage refund, not damage positive, AST, well Astrodyne still exists despite it's pathetic contribution to your total RDPS. Horoscope requires a GCD heal to be 'a potency worth a damn', which we're always trying to avoid using. Synastry STILL exists, after all this time, SOMEhow it survived all the pruning (god I hope it dies in 7.0 rework). The only healer that avoids clunk IMO is Sage, and even then there's some stuff that is odd about it, mainly Toxicon. But the next healer you ask could point out things that I see as clunk, as being chances for optimization, some people might like Astrodyne, some might like that Dissipation/Union/Seraph enforce a sort of 'healing CD rotation' to use them in sequence, some people might think Toxicon is a good system as it gives SGE more movement options. 'Clunk' is subjective. It's why we see people lament the loss of SB DRK, or 4.1 WAR (like me).

Oh good, Firemage is shitting up the healer forums now.

Now? They've been here for a while, they just stopped for a few days for some reason. Maybe they caught a ban for a bit, maybe they found a side project hassling NeoGAF or Roblox or something who knows and who cares

I have literally said that if they return Miasma and Bane to Scholar (while not pruning anything like Energy Drain) I would never come back to these forums because I would be happy enough. Many times, in fact. Because literally anything would be more entertaining than having 1 AoE button and 1 DoT 1 Nuke like every other healer. It doesn't have to be much, but ANYTHING would be better than what we have on 100% of the healers in this game.

Sorry, having more than one DOT and one nuke is against the design the dev team is following, if you don't like falling asleep as you press Glare for 11 GCDs in a row, you can always just play a different role /s

For the avoidance of confusion, I like having 'extra stuff' to manage. I play healer not just to heal, but to 'help my team reach the success condition in any way I can', which includes killing the enemy with my damage. If I'm using 10% Mit to save my team from raidwides like Kerachole or Soil, well, the boss being dead is 100% Mit so it's the most effective Mit in the game, right? Similarly, I used to main Tank in SB, because it wasn't just 'eat hits so party doesn't, mitigate with CDs', there was also the StanceDance minigame of 'can I survive this while not in Tank Stance' with the payoff being 'you do 65% of the damage of the DPS classes'. And if we couldn't survive a TB (unlikely, considering Holmgang was 3min back then), we could use Tank Stance as an emergency CD. WAR was a great example of this, as you could swap back to Defiance, Equilibrium to regain the HP you're missing up to the new maximum (Defiance added max HP, instead of damage reduction), then slam Unchained to negate it's damage penalty. Still not as ideal as staying in Deliverance the whole time, as you'd be losing out on the ability to Fell Cleave and the crit rate effect of the Deliv Gauge, but this kind of trick is a means to express skill. I quit tanking in the first tier of SHB due to the huge changes of tank Stances being made passive, Emnity becoming a complete non-mechanic, and the reduction of my old main DRK into 'lmao WAR2'.

[Rein_eon_Osborne]

Now? They've been here for a while, they just stopped for a few days for some reason. Maybe they caught a ban for a bit, maybe they found a side project hassling NeoGAF or Roblox or something who knows and who cares.

The guy literally warrants themself a wiki page dedicated to crowning their flickering existence. I should say I’m amazed to witness such scalding spectacle in real time, as until quite recently I’ve only heard of anecdotes.

[FireMage]

It's sad that years later people think that healer DPS was more complex than now, instead of what it actually was: clunky

[MintnHoney]

It's sad that years later people think that healer DPS was more complex than now, instead of what it actually was: clunky

It is indeed sad, because it certainly was clunky, once-upon-a-time. But even clunky gameplay can be preferable to gameplay that barely exists.

[FireMage]

It is indeed sad, because it certainly was clunky, once-upon-a-time. But even clunky gameplay can be preferable to gameplay that barely exists.

Like you would know, casul

[MintnHoney]

Like you would know, casul