Rushing new players through dungeons shouldn't be encouraged

[Yuella]

There are mechanics in normal content?

Yes there are.

[Jirah]

It’s not like 80/90s content is any threat what so ever.


Ima be real healing stone vigil is as hard as the game gets

[UkcsAlias]

It’s not like 80/90s content is any threat what so ever.

Unlike the early dungeons, late dungeons at least have very notible mechanics in the boss fights.

Ima be real healing stone vigil is as hard as the game gets

Boss wise this one is easy though. Its only the dungeon itself that has some tankier enemies and can cause wipes because of that.

I would say cutters cry is the first dungeon where a boss fight shows a nasty mechanic (especialy when people do not read chat).

Qarns doom mechanic might be punishing at first, but isnt realy nasty since all the queues are easily shown. Where in cutters cry chat is most reliable, but depending on filters might not show the relevant info.

[shadowclasper]

I dunno about anyone else but when I tank a dungeon I always ask if it's anybody first time for any dungeon before storm blood. Then I stop before each boss to explain mechanics if they're more complicated than tank and spank (even if gear differences make them effectively tank and spank in practice). It's less common of a thing since the rework for trusts though. I lucked out and had that service provided for me by random and friends and I try to pass it on because it really helped me get a grounding for dungeon play going forward.

[DivineP]

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

This is an MMO where you respect other players play styles! Maybe think about the minority who is struggling?

Selfish is not the word!

[DivineP]

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

This is an MMO where you respect other players play styles! Maybe think about the minority who is struggling?

Selfish is not the word!

If you can't commit to the time limit then don't que.

[Burmecia]

im sorry that you have been hurried around.

as sprout, back in the 60's, i remember getting much needed confidence boost by just checking out videoguide.
ARR dungeons arent so hard content that you need guide for mechanics, but it's new experience to you where it is probably some leveling roulette to someone else.
you having some idea whats up ahead will bring you closer to your partymembers' level, and that is what makes the experience nicer for you too.

[Rongway]

I dunno about anyone else but when I tank a dungeon I always ask if it's anybody first time for any dungeon before storm blood. Then I stop before each boss to explain mechanics if they're more complicated than tank and spank (even if gear differences make them effectively tank and spank in practice).

I discourage this. The mechanics are almost always so simple people should be able to figure it out after they've had a proper opportunity to die to them, if they're even in danger of dying at all. If after they see the mechanic a couple times they don't figure it out, they can ask. I'll make exceptions for mechanics that will wipe the party if one person fails or if the mechanic involves something they haven't seen enough times elsewhere in the game yet, i.e., in Emanation "press duty action button whenever orbs appear then grab an orb", because by that point the only other place they've seen the duty button would have been the stealth quest with the smoke bombs and most people have forgotten the button exists by the time they see it again in Emanation.

If people want a thorough explanation of mechanics they should look up a guide instead of expecting the party to type up a guide on the fly, and people should not spoil non-party-wiping mechanics just because the chat log says someone is new. Some people like to be surprised by mechanics, and it's rude to spoil them if they don't ask.

[UkcsAlias]

I've played since 2.0 and I completely agree. I hope they keep adding walls going forward.

I rather see soft walls (effectively a player chosen wall where they prefer to clear up enemies before they continue) than hard walls. Stone vigil has this done very well since w2w pulls there are a guaranteed wipe for the team, yet you can choose which groups you combine. There is a reason this one is often mentioned because its simply a very well designed dungeon by being one of the very few where you actualy face danger.

Instead of 2 mob groups, make the section exist out of 5 groups, of which especialy group 2 and 4 are dealing significantly more damage, and you make w2w pulls impossible, yet still allow people to 'rush' the content. Rushing isnt bad perse, as it rewards skilled players by saving time. But by discouraging this by making the penalty of failure higher, you can have more variety in playstyles of which a lot of them are still fine.

I think that if the dungeon sections are made harder, the requirement of 3 bosses isnt even needed. Especialy since in the latest one the first fight is basicly just a fight against smaller mobs, with some additional hazards. These hazards are no diffirent to the 'random' dragon spitting some fire in the path. Hard walls are a nice queue to hint the team that cleaning up the enemies here is recommended. But this hint is also dumbing down the game. And if the wall is just a blockade for slowing down, then the enemies themselve are simply not strong enough.

But i think the main issue here is the WHM with holy. This aoe stun with easily 6 seconds of stun duration gives often enough time to take out a pack of enemies and thin them out enough to prevent the tank from death. Its such a powerful tool for w2w pulls that even if you buff the enemies, the WHM very likely would still enable this. The only counter here would be if the enemies get effective stun resistance: for example stun durations are capped to 1s on those enemies, allowing their abilities to be interupted, but not make them completely stunlockable (after 3 stun cycles they become stun immune, instead of the current 7, which especialy when only a portion of the enemies have this, means the whm can still support those full 7 seconds, but after 3 seconds can already be forced to start avoiding aoes). Alternatively, enemies can be an active shield for the smaller mobs preventing them from being stunned entirely (demanding focussed fire and delaying the WHM power).
(and yes, stone vigil doesnt allow holy)

[shadowclasper]

I discourage this. The mechanics are almost always so simple people should be able to figure it out after they've had a proper opportunity to die to them, if they're even in danger of dying at all. If after they see the mechanic a couple times they don't figure it out, they can ask. I'll make exceptions for mechanics that will wipe the party if one person fails or if the mechanic involves something they haven't seen enough times elsewhere in the game yet, i.e., in Emanation "press duty action button whenever orbs appear then grab an orb", because by that point the only other place they've seen the duty button would have been the stealth quest with the smoke bombs and most people have forgotten the button exists by the time they see it again in Emanation.

If people want a thorough explanation of mechanics they should look up a guide instead of expecting the party to type up a guide on the fly, and people should not spoil non-party-wiping mechanics just because the chat log says someone is new. Some people like to be surprised by mechanics, and it's rude to spoil them if they don't ask.

Because being an ass about it is totally a thing that makes our community great. This shit is what began to kill wow.

It adds another 3-5 minutes to the dungeon and hardly hurts a thing, if I was doing it for post stormblood dungeons that'd be one thing, but it hurts nothing to ask if folks are new and need the explanations