Brian from Work 2 Game is leaving FFXIV

[Deveryn]

I am sad to see him go. What I think XIV lacks is exploration content. Island Sanctuary actually felt a bit refreshing when I first discovered the island. I wish XIVs world would open up and allow explorers to explore. Everything feels so on rails and "on demand" that it takes some flavor out of the game. Its like a mcdonalds, convenient, but hardly noteworthy.

I can essentially play this game from my inn and never come out basically once ive done all the unlocks (doesn't take too long). Maybe a few teleports here and there, but definitely no need to actually travel.

Meanwhile I have more and more mounts piling up in my list for no reason really.

I'm glad travel is optional, though it's something I find myself doing now and again because the zones are actually worth exploring and wandering through. MMO Travel used to be time consuming and as the audience has come to include more people the older side, there are many that just don't want to be forced to waste time travelling. The same goes for socializing. Being able to "play from the inn" is also a wonderful thing. Look at how much noise is in those cities from all the mindless bs and advertisements. I know I'm not alone in appreciating the quiet time. I told some folks about my FC where no one talks and it didn't sound strange to them, actually quite welcoming.

[Ralphe2449]

Hmm... Sussy baka right here...

Lmao what? Anyone comparing a literally bare bones mmo like new world to a fleshed out mmo like FF14 is either lying or has gone full simp mode.


New world is extremely bare bones even right now, I played it to max level,
-the combat is dreadfully boring for an mmo, literally auto attack spam and 3-6 skills
-magic attack animations look like from a game 20 years ago
-0 story
-No auto group finder so most people havent even touched their dungeons because people cant be bothered socializing in order to have fun
-Not content or things to do at endgame other than grind to get to max gear, nothing interesting to go through, maybe expeditions but most cant be bothered socializing
-Disastrous pvp where organized muskets just delete everything against casual groups who are trying to have fun, magic is pretty much useless.


They absolutely did a few things right, like literally everything from crafting to farming mats to high end content rewards gypsum to get to max gear either fast or slow, but there just isnt that much to do to keep you interested. New world could be decent after maybe a decade of content but right now it is just a big meh

The fact that he is comparing such a bare bones game to an established currently top 1 mmo just seems like he is trying to bait people into arguing or he is rly that delusional.

Either way, it didnt work for him clearly.

[Ath192]

I'm glad travel is optional, though it's something I find myself doing now and again because the zones are actually worth exploring and wandering through. MMO Travel used to be time consuming and as the audience has come to include more people the older side, there are many that just don't want to be forced to waste time travelling. The same goes for socializing. Being able to "play from the inn" is also a wonderful thing. Look at how much noise is in those cities from all the mindless bs and advertisements. I know I'm not alone in appreciating the quiet time. I told some folks about my FC where no one talks and it didn't sound strange to them, actually quite welcoming.

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time. All I'm reading is you're thankful you dont have to talk or do anything that takes any patience or effort. I'm not dimissing you, its a genuine question, feel free to play this game, but MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online is a genre where players would presumably play to socialize, and cooperate in. The hubbub of the cities with spams and chatter is... exactly what you would expect in a fantasy world, especially one set loosely around the imperial age with some futurism.

Nothing about logging on, telporting everywhere, queuing into everything I need to from my inn, and logging out, pretending anyone else is an NPC sounds fun or appealing. And in your case, even logging in to a dead FC.

Forgive me but it just doesnt sound like you want to play in an open world about "adventuring" (Ironically) where you play with others, so these are things solo games excel at.

All these conveniences come with a trade off, and IMO its not good, all it teaches people is to expect instant gratification and get super toxic the moment someone messes up. The game still has enough to keep me playing but they've truly taken the adventuring feel out of it and buried it 10 miles deep. I really wish people didn't keep pushing it into even more convenience and solitude.

[Shurrikhan]

FFXIV 1.0 had a bad sort of fatigue system where every action cost resources and you would end up running out of TP or MP and just sit there waiting for it to come back. 1.23 is what most people refer to as the “golden age” of 1.0 where a lot was overhauled, but it was a stop-gap until Yoshi-P could redo the whole game. Physical damage jobs also had a “sweet spot” for damage depending on how close you were and even lancer and gladiator had different range limits they could hit things but it was more annoying than interesting. The color your gear was determined its sub stats.

The fatigue system had nothing to do with action cost. The fatigue system was simply the inverse of the rested exp system. Rather than spending "bonus" exp on just one class/job, you'd effectively get bonus exp on all of them and would swap to another class once the bonus for the given class's bonus ran out. Yoshida then made it far less alt-friendly by limiting the time-accrued bonus to what could be spent on a single class but placated the playerbase by calling it "rested exp" instead of focusing on its opposite "fatigue" (i.e., running out of rested exp). Hurray?

MP regenerated plenty quickly, and TP wasn't generated over time at all. It was more similar to a job gauge, in this case generated by basic attacks (GCD skills that were later replaced with passive auto-attacks, because somehow Yoshida felt the APM was too high, I guess?) and a select few other skills (Pummel, Flurry, etc.). You then spent it on skills of varying cost (until Yoshida consolidated them all down to just the cost of "combo" openers by drastically increasing all costs but then making all further actions within a "combo" free so long as you did them in order, such that 6000 --1000->2000->3000-- TP's worth of actions could be done with 1000 TP, and so the era of 123 456 123 456 began, in place of situational skills, multiple damage types, synergies, and varying attack shapes).

On the other points, though, agreed.

[Ralphe2449]

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time.

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

Having other people in the world is important, it gives a sense of real world, it adds competition both in pve and even the economy of the came which is fun and exciting, pvp also requires all those people as well.

Yet nowhere does it require "socialize and group up with those people manually" to enjoy content.

That is why so many hardcore games like new world failed, they though people would love socialization because a bunch of loud hardcores keep screaming "I miss my old social mmos " and some are now devs and decide to force their design on everyone, then they wonder why casuals dont bother with their games and choose to leave rather than socialize just do content.

New world had a number of leveling dungeons, the vast majority didnt touch those because there was no auto group finder like FF14.

FF14 even has more high end raid participation due to its accessibility, when people are allowed to do easy versions of high end content without the need for socialization they are far more likely to try out harder content in the future compared to a game that tells you "to do this content you need to socialize, otherwise you cant do it" which is the point me and many casuals just outright leave


MMO does not mean socialization, it means people running around the world.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

The fatigue system had nothing to do with action cost. The fatigue system was simply the inverse of the rested exp system. Rather than spending "bonus" exp on just one class/job, you'd effectively get bonus exp on all of them and would swap to another class once the bonus for the given class's bonus ran out. Yoshida then made it far less alt-friendly by limiting the time-accrued bonus to what could be spent on a single class but placated the playerbase by calling it "rested exp" instead of focusing on its opposite "fatigue" (i.e., running out of rested exp). Hurray?

MP regenerated plenty quickly, and TP wasn't generated over time at all. It was more similar to a job gauge, in this case generated by basic attacks (GCD skills that were later replaced with passive auto-attacks, because somehow Yoshida felt the APM was too high, I guess?) and a select few other skills (Pummel, Flurry, etc.). You then spent it on skills of varying cost (until Yoshida consolidated them all down to just the cost of "combo" openers by drastically increasing all costs but then making all further actions within a "combo" free so long as you did them in order, such that 6000 --1000->2000->3000-- TP's worth of actions could be done with 1000 TP, and so the era of 123 456 123 456 began, in place of situational skills, multiple damage types, synergies, and varying attack shapes).

On the other points, though, agreed.

You are missing a bit on fatigue. you could get 0 exp for jobs after a bit. It wasn't just the opposite of rested. It could lock you out of earning any EXP whatsoever after a while leveling, after making it prohibitively inefficient first.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM

Gotta love this old video explaining it.

[BaconBits]

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

Having other people in the world is important, it gives a sense of real world, it adds competition both in pve and even the economy of the came which is fun and exciting, pvp also requires all those people as well.

Yet nowhere does it require "socialize and group up with those people manually" to enjoy content.

That is why so many hardcore games like new world failed, they though people would love socialization because a bunch of loud hardcores keep screaming "I miss my old social mmos " and some are now devs and decide to force their design on everyone, then they wonder why casuals dont bother with their games and choose to leave rather than socialize just do content.

New world had a number of leveling dungeons, the vast majority didnt touch those because there was no auto group finder like FF14


MMO does not mean socialization, it means people running around the world.

My brother in Christ I'm beginning to think you have a kink for elitists. Nearly every post you make is to take some potshots at the elitist boogieman and I gotta say, it's pretty weird fam.

Genuinely can't be healthy to have this much of a hate-boner for so long.

[Ath192]

Where in that description does it say "you should be forced to socialize and organize with other people you dont like"?

No where, do you like... not like anyone? or Have you already come to the conclusion you won't like anyone you meet in game already? Kinda jaded.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Why dont you just play a solo game though? Like the purpose of MMOs is to be with other people playing the game at the same time. All I'm reading is you're thankful you dont have to talk or do anything that takes any patience or effort. I'm not dimissing you, its a genuine question, feel free to play this game, but MMO - Massive Multiplayer Online is a genre where players would presumably play to socialize, and cooperate in. The hubbub of the cities with spams and chatter is... exactly what you would expect in a fantasy world, especially one set loosely around the imperial age with some futurism.

Nothing about logging on, telporting everywhere, queuing into everything I need to from my inn, and logging out, pretending anyone else is an NPC sounds fun or appealing. And in your case, even logging in to a dead FC.

Forgive me but it just doesnt sound like you want to play in an open world about "adventuring" (Ironically) where you play with others, so these are things solo games excel at.

All these conveniences come with a trade off, and IMO its not good, all it teaches people is to expect instant gratification and get super toxic the moment someone messes up. The game still has enough to keep me playing but they've truly taken the adventuring feel out of it and buried it 10 miles deep. I really wish people didn't keep pushing it into even more convenience and solitude.

If we're being real though the moment things are introduced that force these aspects it's frowned upon or dumbed down. I still put Eureka over Bozja as imo Eureka took instance wide cooperation with the train conductors and groups splitting off to prime NMs. Many expressed hate for that and it was dumbed down. Same for content thats to hard for folks. It gets nerfed. In From The Cold is my favorite msq instance of all time yet because the game didn't hold folks hands they had to create an easier version.

Even stuff like neighborhoods. They're ghost towns. Rp venues see the most people around.
Hell even just content in general. Most you'll get is a "o/" n "gg".

You can explore just fine in xiv and do it solo. Variant is much more enjoyable to experience n explore by myself as it's my own pace. If I have the option to rock with Hades n Co. In the msq I'm gonna do that. But I'm not adverse to running with folks after that.

It's all down to the individual. Some may love it, others may hate. There's many who sit in limsa n chit chat. There's many who dont

[Shurrikhan]

You are missing a bit on fatigue. you could get 0 exp for jobs after a bit. It wasn't just the opposite of rested. It could lock you out of earning any EXP whatsoever after a while leveling, after making it prohibitively inefficient first.

Which differs, per job, from rested exp only in terms of scaling.

Let's say we remove both fatigue and rested exp entirely, leaving only that fatigued/unrested baseline. How many hours/at-level-kills' worth of experience should it take a job to reach the level cap?

Now we add that pre-fatigued/rested state. If the base were the same, the two would likewise be effectively identical. Both are finite. The only difference is that the bonus "rested" exp is spent all one job and the bonus of "not yet fatigued" is spent on each.

If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a single job, the two leveling experiences remain identical for single-job levelers, while fatigue pushes ahead for multi-levelers. If the goal is to extend/gate the time it takes to level a few jobs, then "rested" tends to be faster in getting a single job to cap and "fatigue" tends to be faster in getting a few jobs to cap.

That's it. All that fundamentally changes is a shift in what is incentivized between single-leveling and multi-leveling. The rest is just turning the knob on the base exp acquisition rate relative to what's required to reach cap.


Hot take perhaps, but I preferred when we were a bit more incentivized to multi-level. The later "Additional Actions" were a muddled and disappointing half-measure, but lower MSQ experience and lower experience required per level, etc., would certainly go a decent way, just as retuning the base exp rates while retaining the old fatigue system would have before, especially since you generated margin against fatigue continuously instead of only when in rest areas, allowing time spent on other jobs not to detract from leveling efficiency on others.


Note: Both systems had the Armory Bonus.