YPYT is griefing. Tank role is not "puller" role

[Zolvolt]

This is just a FYI, but tanking does not mean you are the only one allowed to pull mobs in a dungeon. The game is designed to stop you from pulling too many mobs. You can not physically pull more than a group can handle either.

I've seen a handful of people get small bans for griefing the party by refusing to tank as well which is unfortunate for them.

If you want full control of your dungeon experience there are trust dungeons available to you, but when you player with others and you want to be the one that controls everything then you are going to have a bad time.

When you enter a dungeon the goal is to complete the duty. If you do anything to intentionally not complete the duty than you are breaking ToS by becoming a bad actor.

Things like RP walking on purpose so others die to mobs
Refusing to hit buttons so that people die to mobs
removing tank stance and shirking other players so that they die.
Running away from the enemies as the tank in an effort to not engage with them.
Straight up refusing to play the game until you get your way. This is the biggest red flag, you will 100% get in trouble for this.

These are all offenses that can get you small bans. This is also reinforced in the novice network's training simulations. The dps jobs pull mobs for the tank in those training sims.

[dwodmots]

Have you tried tanking yourself?

[Rolanberries]

YPYT mindset is just an ego problem. It's 100% a problem of tanks feeling offended that someone else thinks they're taking too much time to pull.

[Zolvolt]

Have you tried tanking yourself?

I play tank quite frequently

[Ransu]

This is just a FYI, but tanking does not mean you are the only one allowed to pull mobs in a dungeon.

Yes it does. Tanks job is to control the threat of all the mobs. Its not the healers job, its not the dps job and if you wanna pull, have fun dealing with that mob.

You sound like one of those players that runs ahead and pulls cuz the tank isn't going fast enough for you. To be blunt, players like you are the problem, not tanks that abide by the rule of YPYT.

This is also reinforced in the novice network's training simulations. The dps jobs pull mobs for the tank in those training sims.

WTF are you talking about? Nothing about the tutorials even remotely suggest that. This isn't 2001 with exp farming parties where a ranged pulls mobs back to a groups camp. Welcome to 2022 and modern MMO's. Its the tanks job to pull and to control the flow of a dungeon.

YPYT mindset is just an ego problem. It's 100% a problem of tanks feeling offended that someone else thinks they're taking too much time to pull.

If a tanks not comfortable with bigger pulls then they are not comfortable. If you don't like their pace then leave and take the leaver penalty, otherwise suck it up its not that big of a deal if your dungeon run adds an extra 5 minutes because you don't have the patience to deal with someone who may be new to tanking.

[Rolanberries]

If a tanks not comfortable with bigger pulls then they are not comfortable. If you don't like their pace then leave and take the leaver penalty, otherwise suck it up its not that big of a deal if your dungeon run adds an extra 5 minutes because you don't have the patience to deal with someone who may be new to tanking.

That's fine, but pulling as a dps or healer is not griefing (main point of the OP), unlike refusing to grab the aggro from dps or healer. Besides, there's plenty of tools for tanks and healers to use to handle big pulls with ease. Tanks who prefer small pulls for whatever reason have options such as trust, or letting their party know from the start since it's usually the norm to do wall to wall pulls. It's simply just a you problem at that point if you're refusing to cooperate with your team and use extra cooldowns if one of your party members happen to pull.

[Fandele]

I've run into this before, as an occasional Bad Tank (TM). I pull what I'm comfortable with, usually one group, sometimes two. Most people are ok with it, especially since I normally group with friends.
But I do remember one particular instance in Smileton, where three of us queued in duty finder for a fourth, and ended up with a very impatient reaper who repeatedly pulled All The Things. Now, I did my best, but we did end up wiping twice in the span of about 90 seconds, he bailed, and dutyfinder replaced him almost immediately with another dps with whom we went on to finish without further incident.
I've had other people pull before, and I'm fine with it as long as it's not more than I can handle. But it's something that should be discussed beforehand, and the tank and/or healer have made their comfort levels heard.

[Zolvolt]

That's fine, but pulling as a dps or healer is not griefing (main point of the OP), unlike refusing to grab the aggro from dps or healer. Besides, there's plenty of tools for tanks and healers to use to handle big pulls with ease. Tanks who prefer small pulls for whatever reason have options such as trust, or letting their party know from the start since it's usually the norm to do wall to wall pulls. It's simply just a you problem at that point if you're refusing to cooperate with your team and use extra cooldowns if one of your party members happen to pull.

This is exactly my point yes. Communicating with a party that you struggle with big pulls or are a new player is not what we're talking about. We're talking about all the experienced tank players (any tank who is level 90 and not a sprout/returning player) in the game that grief the party when they are not the one who touched the mob first.

[Ransu]

That's fine, but pulling as a dps or healer is not griefing

It kinda is though.

[Shurrikhan]

[Pulling as a dps or healer] kinda is [griefing] though.

It's only griefing if it's creating an unfavorable equilibrium of stress to pursuit of the party's interest. Most want to complete their daily in a reasonable time. Most do not want to be stressed in doing so. Being a team player is essentially acting the best you can towards both priorities.

If 3/4s of the party want to go faster, would not be stressed out by going faster, and are not bottlenecked by the tank (regardless of their refusing to use CDs or do anything but spam Unleash) for anything other than courtesy (undeserved, in this case), then the tank demanding the rest tiptoe around their domineering ego is the one griefing.


Consider: What's the stressor there? Not a content mechanic, but a social factor -- and from a single person, opposite a majority.

And if the tank refuses to take threat on those pulls, it's no longer incidental; it's intentional. How would that possibly not be griefing/trolling/gameplay sabotage? It is actively and disproportionately negatively affecting one's party, to a lower average quality for everyone, in a way that relies upon breaking from a much more fundamental responsibility (not just pulling and pace-setting, but actually tanking).

YPYT is purposely ignoring one's actual responsibilities (not just their typical perks/prerogatives) with the express purpose of harming other players in order to enforce a minority preference over that majority. That is, definitively, entitled griefing.