(MAJOR SPOILERS) Just beat Endwalker MSQ...

[Travel]

So, like the title says, I just managed to beat Endwalker last night, and... I wanted to post my thoughts. It's not going to be all positive, so forewarning, but I have a lot on my mind, and just... wanted to post my thoughts, I guess.

(WARNING: THERE ARE MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE ENDWALKER MSQ IN THIS POST. IF YOU DO NOT WISH TO BE SPOILED, PLEASE TURN BACK NOW!)



Let's get the negatives out of the way first; while everything is fresh on my mind.

- First and foremost, I certainly had some issues with the story; make no mistake, the story was fantastic, better than Heavensward, even, but I still had some issues with a few details. Namely, Sharlayan; I get that they were under orders from Hydaelyn to prepare an evac plan in case the PC wasn't able to find a way to stop Meteion, but... did they have to keep everyone in the dark about it constantly? I know they were trying to avoid panic, but given that the Scions are world heroes at this point, I think letting them in on the plan somehow would have been a smart move. That, and the fact that I never got a chance to punch Fourchenault's smug-ass face in is... a little frustrating.

- Also, the time-travel plot with Elpis raised a few questions; the fact that the entire plotline of FFXIV, every single issue, every single problem that the world ended up facing... was basically because of some dumbass scientist refusing to do peer review and making sure Meteion and her sisters didn't fuck everything up by interfering with the other worlds.

- Additionally, Venat knew just about everything that was going to happen, and... basically didn't do too much to help out. Her sundering of the ancients, while some would disagree, was arguably the best option - the ancients proved themselves way too incompetent and complacent to really try and make any change - but other than that, she really didn't do much to properly help out with the plot until later on. Yeah, her attempting to ensure that mankind would be able to properly deal with dynamis is understandable, but her plan for preventing the end of the world had an awful lot of gambles in it; she best be lucky that the story went how it did.

- That, and the memory spell twist, while effective, was something that's fairly obvious in hindsight.

- Speaking of twists, there's the sacrifice of all of the Scions in Ultima Thule; yeah, it's effective - at first - but by the end it just felt slightly ridiculous, and I could tell that the devs were going to pull a resurrection method out by the end. Given the general story of FFXIV, I knew the devs weren't going to kill off so many likable characters like that, especially in a rather cheap and kinda sudden way, so I knew something was up when Estinian vanished, and when Y'shtola mentioned the spell, I knew what was going to happen sooner or later.

- On a more minor note, I found that mission where you have to play as an Imperial Soldier - with limited health, no health regen, little damage, and an absolute shit-ton of enemies to fight - to be far more frustrating than fun. Wasn't a complete deal-breaker, but maybe a little bit of tweaking would make it a bit more fun.

- I also had some issues with two of the races; firstly, the Loporrits. Yes, they're adorable and vital to the plot, but I felt that game's pacing grind to a halt when they showed up. That, and the cutesy-poo design and story they had was such a jarring shift from the rest of the plot - coming off of the reveal about Zodiark, only to suddenly be dealing with miniature easter bunnies, was an almost absurd tonal shift that damaged the immersion.

- The second are the Omicrons in Ultima Thule; as several other posters have mentioned, it's difficult, if not impossible, to really find them sympathetic due to the fact that they're basically a race of kill-droids that murdered tons of other planets just to prove themselves the strongest. If anything, I found their extinction to be entirely warranted; even the Moogles are more likable.



Alright, now with all of that out of the way, let me move to what I actually liked, which would be...

... literally everything else.



- Seriously, whoever created Endwalker deserves a prize, because I honestly fell in love with this one; I admit, I found Shadowbringers to be a bit overrated at points, but Endwalker really lives up to the hype. Sadly, I didn't get to go into the expansion completely unspoiled - thanks YouTube and TvTropes - but I still got to experience most of it completely fresh, and what I did get spoiled on certainly helped me prepare.

- I think what I enjoyed the most about the expansion was the area design; whoever spent all that time making the areas is certainly an expert, because these were some of the very few areas I actually wanted to go back and explore after I complete them. Ultima Thule and Garlemald are easily my favorite areas in FFXIV now, even more so than Amaurot, and I really can't help but just run around and take in the sights. As depressing as I find Ultima Thule, especially, I can't help but to want to just... travel through the area, despite the sadness, and the fact that I heard that the situation there eventually starts to improve is nice.

- The music is great, too; probably at it's best so far. Close In The Distance - the field theme for Ultima Thule - is extremely good, and the final boss theme for the Zenos battle reminds me of some of the Yakuza songs, it's that catchy.

- The fights were fantastic fun, as well; the boss fight against Anima was completely unexpected, but an absolute blast. The Endsinger (I keep wanting to call her the Hellsinger and have Stygia play in the background, dammit) was a lot of fun, even though I died like 8 times in the first third of the fight; sorry team! The fight against Zenos was easily the best fight in the game, in my opinion, and the little smirk my character made just before the fight kicked off was... *chef's kiss*. I mean, I knew the later two fights were going to happen, but... damn, I was still surprised and thrilled!

- Also, while I complained about it earlier, I still found the mission where you get to play as an Imperial Soldier to be fun; yeah, it's a complete pain in the ass, and I certainly would mind the difficultly getting adjusted slightly, but I honestly kinda want to give it another shot.

- Similarly, despite me complaining about the Loporrits, I found them to be a welcome respite from all of the depression and negativity that was in Endwalker; yes, they killed the pacing, and their tone clashed a bit too hard with the rest of the expansion, but I still like them; looking forward to the Beast Tribe quests for them.

- The various dungeons were easily some of the better ones, as well. In comparison to some of the earlier dungeons - I found myself hating the Shadowbringers dungeons, actually - the dungeons and trials for Endwalker were actually really, really great, and I'm unironically looking forward to getting some more jobs to 81-90 so I have an excuse to give them another go. The level 90 dungeon especially was... insane, but in a good way, with the three areas just keeping me on my toes and leaving me with little idea with what to expect - even after TvTropes spoiled me on it.

- Character-wise, I found just about everyone to be rather likable. Yeah, there were a few characters I wanted to just strangle, but for the most part I found just about everyone to feel... well, solid. From goofy moments like Urianger getting hammered at The Last Stand, to more somber but happy moments like Jullus breaking down after getting a warm drink, to the emotional rollercoaster that was the entirety of Ultima Thule, I really do think that this expansion was/is my favorite on characterization so far. The fact that the post-MSQ - which I have yet to go through - is supposed to be good as well is something else I can look forward to. They even managed to give character development and likability to Zenos, of all people!

- Second-to-lastly, I found the story itself to be surprisingly moving at the end. I admit, I spent most the MSQ just wanting to the end, so I could catch up to my friends and do some dungeon raiding together, but there were plenty of moments that I found myself surprised by. The scene with the baby in Thavnair was actually terrifying and walking through Garlemald and seeing it destroyed and it's people despairing was equally sobering and cathartic. Ultima Thule - while I am beating a dead horse here - was the point that took me the most off-guard, as what little I did get told about it painted a completely different picture than what I was expecting, but it was something I still enjoyed... even if I did end up getting a bit misty.

- Lastly... "That, I can't deny."

[Absimiliard]

You may want to consider completing all the side-quests and looking into various peripheral materials, including interviews and even a completely separate game, that contain a significant amount of information relevant to the plot. Oh, and talking to the NPCs in different zones. Some of them have pretty interesting (and relevant) things to say. The MSQ paints a fairly incomplete picture.

[Thenightvortex]

How were the ancients complacent? They did everything to protect their star with what little information they had up to and including sacrificing half of their number voluntarily. It survived only because of Zodiark.

[Travel]

You may want to consider completing all the side-quests and looking into various peripheral materials, including interviews and even a completely separate game, that contain a significant amount of information relevant to the plot. Oh, and talking to the NPCs in different zones. Some of them have pretty interesting (and relevant) things to say. The MSQ paints a fairly incomplete picture.

That's actually what I'm doing now; I'm going to be going back and completing the side-quests - which I never do - as well as talk to the different NPCs, just so I can do more story stuff.

Which game are you talking about, by the way? Is it FF: Tactics? I know XIV takes a lot from that game.

How were the ancients complacent? They did everything to protect their star with what little information they had up to and including sacrificing half of their number voluntarily. It survived only because of Zodiark.

The MSQ makes it pretty clear that the Ancients were more concerned with restoring their status quo than they were actually fixing the problem; from what I can gather, the Ancients were too used to paradise to really consider any alternatives. They seemed to have been too broken by despair to really try and make a difference - maybe "complacent" isn't the best word here - but when Venat confronted the group summoning Zodiark to try and get them to try and pick themselves up and move on, they instead went through with the summoning to try and get their old paradise back, despite that being impossible. In other words, they kept trying to focus on the past instead of looking towards the future.

[jameseoakes]

The MSQ makes it pretty clear that the Ancients were more concerned with restoring their status quo than they were actually fixing the problem; from what I can gather, the Ancients were too used to paradise to really consider any alternatives. They seemed to have been too broken by despair to really try and make a difference - maybe "complacent" isn't the best word here - but when Venat confronted the group summoning Zodiark to try and get them to try and pick themselves up and move on, they instead went through with the summoning to try and get their old paradise back, despite that being impossible. In other words, they kept trying to focus on the past instead of looking towards the future.

Ah yes just the thing to come and do to people grieving, to telling them that they are wrong to grieve for the loved ones what a hateful thing to do. Hey everyone you loved is dead, well just get over it and move on. it's a hateful spiteful mindset.
Greif breaks people and I find the idea that if people don't react in an someone imposed way then they don't deserve to exterminated to be one of the most evil acts I've seen in Final Fantasy.

[Thenightvortex]

That's actually what I'm doing now; I'm going to be going back and completing the side-quests - which I never do - as well as talk to the different NPCs, just so I can do more story stuff.

Which game are you talking about, by the way? Is it FF: Tactics? I know XIV takes a lot from that game.



The MSQ makes it pretty clear that the Ancients were more concerned with restoring their status quo than they were actually fixing the problem; from what I can gather, the Ancients were too used to paradise to really consider any alternatives. They seemed to have been too broken by despair to really try and make a difference - maybe "complacent" isn't the best word here - but when Venat confronted the group summoning Zodiark to try and get them to try and pick themselves up and move on, they instead went through with the summoning to try and get their old paradise back, despite that being impossible. In other words, they kept trying to focus on the past instead of looking towards the future.

The group she talked with wasn’t summoning Zodiark, that scene is metaphorical and represents different points of the timeline. By that time Zodiark was already there and they are present worshipers.

You say that they didn’t fix the problem and didn’t look to the future, but how do you envision it? They tried to restore their home and rebuild just like the sundered did after the last calamity, why is it wrong? It was hard for them to deal with grief(figures considering they lost 75% of their population), but they did the best they could considering they did not know of the source of the Final Days(concealed by Venat btw)

Basically, what I’m asking is what in your opinion they should’ve done which would ‘earn them the right’ to not be sundered?

[Absimiliard]

Which game are you talking about, by the way? Is it FF: Tactics? I know XIV takes a lot from that game.

NieR Re[in]carnation. There's a bit of rather interesting info from the period leading up to and just after the sundering over there. I know how odd that sounds, but it was part of a crossover deal set in motion back in Shadowbringers. I don't know if you've done them yet, but there's a series of three 24-man NieR raids in ShB known collectively as YoRHa: Dark Apocalypse. The other end of that deal took the form of Emet-Selch and some relevant lore ending up in NieR Re[in]carnation. And yes, despite being revealed in another game entirely, it is considered canon.

Gonna be real. I consider that lore being gated behind NieR Re[in]carnation to be incredibly stupid. Most fortuitously, enough people shared this take for screenshots divulging the bulk of it to wind up all over the internet as to save others from having to play through that accursed mobile gacha game.

[Vahlnir]

I enjoyed the EW story well enough, but even I can recognize its pretty major flaws. I will also be honest in saying that you mostly lost me and I resorted to skimming your posts after you said it was better than HW. Calling Shadowbringers overrated didn't help your case either. In my opinion, EW was okay, but it did not quite live up to the hype. Shadowbringers went above and beyond in that regard, and we got a story I don't think most people expected to be as good as it was.

[Semirhage]

The MSQ makes it pretty clear that the Ancients were more concerned with restoring their status quo than they were actually fixing the problem; from what I can gather, the Ancients were too used to paradise to really consider any alternatives. They seemed to have been too broken by despair to really try and make a difference - maybe "complacent" isn't the best word here - but when Venat confronted the group summoning Zodiark to try and get them to try and pick themselves up and move on, they instead went through with the summoning to try and get their old paradise back, despite that being impossible. In other words, they kept trying to focus on the past instead of looking towards the future.

Oh no. Hide, you poor thing. You've just activated the Emet fanclub. Their seething, raging, venomous loathing of fictional character Venat is a sight to behold. Prepare for a small but insistent flood that she's the most spiteful, evil, wicked, hateful, deceitful, vicious witch the canon of fiction has ever produced, and the Ancient utopia "deserved" to keep going forever. No, explaining story themes isn't a deterrent.

Glad you enjoyed the story.

[ReynTime]

I enjoyed the EW story well enough, but even I can recognize its pretty major flaws. I will also be honest in saying that you mostly lost me and I resorted to skimming your posts after you said it was better than HW. Calling Shadowbringers overrated didn't help your case either. In my opinion, EW was okay, but it did not quite live up to the hype. Shadowbringers went above and beyond in that regard, and we got a story I don't think most people expected to be as good as it was.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt and read everything, but not gonna lie, saying it was better than Heavensward made it tempting to stop and leave the topic. However some of their negatives I do agree with, specially on the Loporrits and pacing.