MNK and DRG: How are they?

[Travel]

Haven't seen any threads about these two jobs; seen plenty for SAM, RPR, and NIN, but none for MNK and DRG. So, I'll bite.

How are these jobs doing this patch? What problems do they have? What should be changed?

[Zarkovitch]

I do not main them. But, they are still solid picks overall.

[Absurdity]

Monk is probably in the best spot it's been for years, both in terms of gameplay and performance (so much so that I almost think the design was an accident on SE's part), and dragoon is doing really well too, probably why every dragoon is dreading the supposed rework in 7.0

[Fendred]

Monk is probably in the best spot it's been for years, both in terms of gameplay and performance (so much so that I almost think the design was an accident on SE's part), and dragoon is doing really well too, probably why every dragoon is dreading the supposed rework in 7.0

They fixed some things with monk, but the masterful blitz mechanic its now built around throws the entire rotation into chaos, so people generally do not stick with it. There are statistics backing what I'm saying as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciTbFt0U6M&t=215s

Dragoon is... playable. It's not bad, but not great either. It has some goofy stuff like eye of the dragon that requires the DPS to target someone during OGCD which is janky. It also runs into the problem of being cooldown heavy in a 2 min burst meta. However, Drg is simple enough that cooldown drifting doesn't adversely effect it too much. It's just that damn eye of the dragon. Like if we could just designate our eye of the dragon partner ahead of time it would be way less annoying.

[Absurdity]

They fixed some things with monk, but the masterful blitz mechanic its now built around throws the entire rotation into chaos, so people generally do not stick with it. There are statistics backing what I'm saying as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wciTbFt0U6M&t=215s

If we go by that statistic in a vacuum then BLM is also a terribly designed job that desperately needs a rework.

As Xeno himself said in that video you use to prove your point, Monk is a well designed job and it performs well too. It just isn't very popular, it never has been, because it is not as flashy as other jobs and very punishing, just like Black Mage.


By that same statistic warrior would be one of the best designed jobs in the game and while I would absolutely disagree with that assessment as someone who has mained warrior for 6 years, my opinion is completely irrelevant in this case. The statistic isn't about how well designed a job is, it's a popularity chart.

Warrior is easy to pick up, easy to do well on, barely punishes you for mistakes and completely trivializes lower end content, so obviously it's going to be a popular pick for the average player.

[VentVanitas]

There are many things about MNK that I do not consider designed well and I don't think it is helpful for anyone to dismiss potential discussion. Yes, the popularity of a job does not represent its quality- but there is merit in understanding why MNK is played so little compared to its DPS brothers and it's not as simple as chalking it up to Monk being punishing (which is not true anymore) or being "hard to play" (a subjective metric). Do not get me wrong though, I do not share Fendred's rather surface level and unhelpful opinion of "no one plays Monk therefore rework it."

[AlgernonBlackwood]

There are many things about MNK that I do not consider designed well and I don't think it is helpful for anyone to dismiss potential discussion. Yes, the popularity of a job does not represent its quality- but there is merit in understanding why MNK is played so little compared to its DPS brothers and it's not as simple as chalking it up to Monk being punishing (which is not true anymore) or being "hard to play" (a subjective metric). Do not get me wrong though, I do not share Fendred's rather surface level and unhelpful opinion of "no one plays Monk therefore rework it."

For a start, it would be nice if the job was actually playable without third party mods. It's the job I find the most fun, but I've all but given up on raiding with it due to the fact that it forces double weaves on you despite being literally incapable of accommodating them when playing on console.

I've tried everything I can think of to make it work, but you just can't get around the windows where you need to hit both RoF and PB without clipping, drifting RoF, or rearranging your entire rotation to avoid these windows.

edit: actually, I guess delaying your PB until after your Raptor works okay. You still have time to fit everything into RoF. It just feels kind of bad.

[Mithron]

MNK is currently 1st in rDPS and 3rd in aDPS, making it the second best job in the game currently (the best being SAM, which SAM beats MNK in 50th percentile rDPS). It's a lot more accessible and easier to play now, which for the hardcore mains isn't so much a good thing in their opinion. I find it a lot more fun than its ever been, but it's true that its skill cap has been lowered significantly since HW.

DRG is 4th in rDPS and 6th in aDPS. It's still pretty solid. I don't have any outstanding complaints about the job, but I never really found it that fun to play. SE is planning to completely rework it (and AST) in 7.0, while PLD is getting a rework next patch.

Play what you want and play it well. That's the meta now that P8s was nerfed.

[Petite]

It's my first savage tier playing a melee DPS and I chose DRG as it has my favorite job aesthetic.

I feel it's smooth to play until you get to your 2 min burst window. Having to press 5 "jump" oGCDs that each immobilize you for at least 1s feels very clunky. (High Jump, 2x Spineshatter Dive, Dragonfire Dive, Star Diver).

Outright, they should replace Spineshatter Dive with another, move fun, OGCD. Elusive Jump is already a better movement tool anyway.

[pympcakes]

I don't raid, so I can't address performance, but I obsess over class design and feel in FFXIV and many other MMOs.

but monk is probably one of the best designed dps jobs. It's not perfect (could use more oGCDs perhaps, a way to pool chakra, and for the love of Eorzea a single ranged ability just for solo play if not dungeons/raiding). Great flow through the stances, decision making that matters, ability to burst during burst windows without feeling bored the rest of the time. It reminds me of Black Mage a bit in how the kit flows through its loop and allows for seamless transition from single target to AOE. Thunderclap is my favorite gap closer or movement ability in the game. It's perfect (gap closers also should not have potency bc this game is 1000% obsessed with damage, making them just another oGCD damage ability to cram into burst windows).

Dragoon... let's just say I am looking forward to the rework. It's the job I want to play (lore, ascetic, weapon), but the rigid combo system combined with jarring < 1 second jumps and no truly hard hitting abilities just doesn't do it for me. And that's fine; I know most dragoon mains seem happy with the claas and I hope they get to keep it. Frankly, dragoon taking over monk's rotation (roughly) - with jumps being big GCD abilities that are built up to - would fit the class fantasy so much better. Jumps were iconic, and having them be piddling small hits with little animation weight (due to weaving/clipping concerns) feels like an utter waste of a great concept. Jumps should be on the GCD.