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  1. #1
    Player
    HyonaCookie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2022
    Posts
    146
    Character
    Hyohyona Hyona
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    Scholar Lv 73

    Why do bard songs need a target?

    I don't get why with the amount of times bosses become untargetable, bard songs still need a target. It breaks the song rotation and ends up being punishing for no reason. I guess cheesing could be a problem with songs being no target required, but then it could just be made to only be useable in-combat. It would be great if they could not need a target instead.
    (14)
    The past is prologue

  2. #2
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Because they are attacks...They all deal unaspected damaged for 100 potency.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
    Because they are attacks...They all deal unaspected damaged for 100 potency.
    I think that's part of their question: Why they include the unaspected damage element at all, when for the most part they're cycling buffs on the user and their damage is negligible anyway. If you removed the damage (and distributed it elsewhere in the rotation), you'd see negligible difference in how the job works.

    I think the answer to that question is in how the songs work during downtime... but then again, what benefit do they have without a target anyway?
    (10)

  4. #4
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    If I had to guess, its to prevent pre-pull stuff, especially since the buffs proc without dots now.
    (7)

  5. #5
    Player Mithron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    699
    Character
    Mithron Scarlet
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Paladin Lv 100
    Technically, I think it might be because all GCDs require some kind of target, but it could be changed to be more like an AoE around the player (like Medica GCD) instead for usability. It's just BRD is a DPS so it's rare you would not be targeting an enemy at all times outside things like Nature's Minne so I'm not sure what the problem is.

    Never mind, I think it's an OGCD? I can't test right now and BRD is literally my second least played job hahah.
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Archwizard's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    A café at the edge of the universe
    Posts
    1,130
    Character
    Archwizard Drake
    World
    Sargatanas
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Ransu View Post
    If I had to guess, its to prevent pre-pull stuff, especially since the buffs proc without dots now.
    Sure, but as OP suggested, they could easily go on the same system we see with abilities like Aetherflow that cannot be activated while out of combat anyway, preventing any sort of pre-pull.

    As I was saying, being able to cast without a target would only affect downtime periods where enemies can't be targeted, and in that scenario (or even including pre-pull), without a target to uncap Bloodletter on, the most you would get is... pre-charging Army's Ethos, or maybe a single Pitch Perfect? Either of which is already a potential waste of buff uptime anyway...
    Which frankly, the idea that a Bard doesn't get any sort of downtime effect, even just humming to pause their song timers, is already kinda curious.
    (13)
    Last edited by Archwizard; 10-21-2022 at 05:54 AM.

  7. #7
    Player
    Reimmi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Posts
    1,229
    Character
    Nia Niyah
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 92
    It makes things very frustrating if you drift songs between boss transitions, would love to see them become a AOE or just remove the damage
    (8)

  8. #8
    Player Ransu's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Leaving my SAM in Kugane
    Posts
    2,948
    Character
    Raansu Omiyari
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Samurai Lv 100
    Every job has to deal with drift. Its actually extremely bad on BLM with their thunder proc. The design is intentional to make you adjust your rotation.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player
    Cetonis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    445
    Character
    Sana Cetonis
    World
    Adamantoise
    Main Class
    Bard Lv 100
    Stuff that only works in combat can be weird in terms of how long it takes for the game to realize that you're "in combat". But you're right that aside from that fact, it would be a clear improvement to just have the songs not deal damage and be combat-only. Personally, I would also accept an 80s cooldown on MB and AP, which I think overall would do more good.

    SE just hasn't prioritized Bard QoL concerns, is all. Other than, for some reason, making a couple changes nobody asked for in 6.1, while ignoring issues that are actually frustrating people.

    Presumably SE just doesn't have the bandwidth to properly care for all 20 jobs at this point. It's a guessing game of which jobs they're going to decide most need attention at any given time, and then a second stage of guessing at whether they actually understand what a job's needs are.
    (11)

  10. #10
    Player
    Kalaam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    Limsa-Lominsa
    Posts
    781
    Character
    Kalaam Nozalys
    World
    Phantom
    Main Class
    Red Mage Lv 90
    Honestly it is weird, when you consider that dancer doesn't (and its dance does way more damage in an AoE)
    (3)

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