A game for 4 year olds

[JeanneOrnitier]

I just hope this doesn’t end up like the void quests where the storyline is abandoned on a cliffhanger and they come back in the next expansion to deal with it without acknowledging the role capstone quests.

It's a side tangent but I actually think the ShB Void Quests are going to lead into a new sidequest series with Unukalhai, Cylva, and Zero all working together once Zero's role in the MSQ is finished. Unukalhai and Cylva actually have new dialogue after 6.2 asking you to give them any further updates you can about Zero.

[RukoBoshi]

It's a side tangent but I actually think the ShB Void Quests are going to lead into a new sidequest series with Unukalhai, Cylva, and Zero all working together once Zero's role in the MSQ is finished. Unukalhai and Cylva actually have new dialogue after 6.2 asking you to give them any further updates you can about Zero.

They also give us a little plot hook by having Unukalhai say he is interested in meeting the people responsible for restoring the elements in the Empty.
We may see Ryne and Gaia play a part in that eventual storyline.

Agreed. If anything they've almost taken the opposite direction, with precious few NPCs actually referring to our character as the Warrior of Light anymore.

I wonder what we will be referred as from now on, in the next expansion. Back to adventurer or will they find a new nickname ? I wouldn't mind something a bit less grandiose than hero or warrior of light.

[RyuDragnier]

And a bit of an 'unseen storm' character would certainly be new. I feel like to some, the fact Zenos and Ran'jit were quantifiable foes that they could theoretically win fights against made it hard to swallow actually losing to them, but going up against someone who's won before we even turn up would really build up some mystery.

Which is why I really want it to be a clone of Noah Gabranth. He looked at the full board and manipulated everything so his ideals would win out in the end. Brilliant villain, and having a cloned version of him would be a breath of fresh air. Capable of manipulating us, and gracefully bowing out when he's going to lose. So we never know when he's a friend, when he's an enemy, or when we're finally going to get to fight him.

I wonder what we will be referred as from now on, in the next expansion. Back to adventurer or will they find a new nickname ? I wouldn't mind something a bit less grandiose than hero or warrior of light.

Probably Outlander or some other word to refer to a foreigner, if we go to Meracydia or the New World. And tbh it has kind of a ring to it...

[thegreatonemal]

Which is why I really want it to be a clone of Noah Gabranth. He looked at the full board and manipulated everything so his ideals would win out in the end. Brilliant villain, and having a cloned version of him would be a breath of fresh air. Capable of manipulating us, and gracefully bowing out when he's going to lose. So we never know when he's a friend, when he's an enemy, or when we're finally going to get to fight him.


Probably Outlander or some other word to refer to a foreigner, if we go to Meracydia or the New World. And tbh it has kind of a ring to it...

Did he do that? Or did he cause a rather unnecessary war for ideals that others also had and planned to implement when the Garleans left. It's not like he planned for those who wanted to go back poor people being on the bottom to die in the fighting cuz they didn't and people still have to deal with those factions. He's still a good villian an all that but it just feels like his conflict was shoehorned in.

[RyuDragnier]

Did he do that? Or did he cause a rather unnecessary war for ideals that others also had and planned to implement when the Garleans left. It's not like he planned for those who wanted to go back poor people being on the bottom to die in the fighting cuz they didn't and people still have to deal with those factions. He's still a good villian an all that but it just feels like his conflict was shoehorned in.

I don't think it was shoehorned in. Remember, the bombing of Rabanastre happened in Stormblood shortly before the beginning of 4.1 (which is why it's still smoking in 4.1 when the raid series started). Rabanastre was home to a ceruleum refueling station for the Garlean Empire. Destroying it and the city would only hurt the Garlean Empire's hold on the eastern regions because they would be unable to take the trip as easily. But who was already luckily in the area so they wouldn't need to? The IVth Legion, run by one Noah Gabranth, who sought to create an independent nation of a true meritocracy, where ones merits would determine their place in society, not their race, gender, or country of origin. Essentially a country free of bigotry, or so I think he hoped.

However the Empire fell, possibly sooner than Noah wanted. The Field Records state that the events in Bozja were set up by Noah to be a stalemate so they could keep their strength holding out for as long as possible since they also had to deal with the Dalmascan front. At the same time Noah kept spies and intel going, all of whom told Menenius that Noah was more concerned with the plans of the leaders once Garlean occupation ended. While Bajsaljen was in charge in Bozja, his ideal nation would be formed there. For Dalmasca, Menenius suspected Noah had already sent somebody there to help move things towards his ideals there as well.

The field records also mention that Lyon supposedly killed Noah, despite being faithful to the family for several decades. How Lyon dropped off the scientist responsible for cloning Dabogs (full aether copy complete with memories) to the Resistance without a word and left, how the Resistance has been chasing Lyon constantly. Also how Noah supposedly did not put up a fight before he was killed (remember, he was already dying from a disease), how his corpse was burnt to be unrecognizable, how few have actually seen his face.

Add it all together, and you have Noah planned things in advance to not only create his ideal country (which he has in a sense), but also to allow a clone of his to basically walk away and stay in the shadows to plot in the future.

Again, i will stand by my thought that Noah Gabranth is one hell of a planner and a clone of him would make for a very interesting recurring villain.

[DPZ2]

Add it all together, and you have Noah planned things in advance to not only create his ideal country (which he has in a sense), but also to allow a clone of his to basically walk away and stay in the shadows to plot in the future.

And what happens if the clone decides they do not want to follow in the footsteps of the Master?

The only way Noah can become a "recurring" villain is if all players are forced to go through the Bozjan quest lines first. Since the author of those quest lines has already decided that they are not going to pursue the tale further, that looks decidedly iffy to me.

[RyuDragnier]

And what happens if the clone decides they do not want to follow in the footsteps of the Master?

The only way Noah can become a "recurring" villain is if all players are forced to go through the Bozjan quest lines first. Since the author of those quest lines has already decided that they are not going to pursue the tale further, that looks decidedly iffy to me.

You say that, but then you do recall how they introduced Alisaie, right? She was only in Coil prior to her appearance in HW. They can have him show up at some point, and some NPC there can just go, "Wait, reports stated you were burned alive after you lost Bozja and Dalmasca!" Right there, no need to go into the Bozja content, we know exactly that he had been killed, and has now shown up again.

[DPZ2]

You say that, but then you do recall how they introduced Alisaie, right? She was only in Coil prior to her appearance in HW. They can have him show up at some point, and some NPC there can just go, "Wait, reports stated you were burned alive after you lost Bozja and Dalmasca!" Right there, no need to go into the Bozja content, we know exactly that he had been killed, and has now shown up again.

And absolutely nothing else. How can a villain be "recurring" without us having come across them before? How are we to evaluate their current actions, to feel like this is indeed someone worthy of our attention just because an NPC says so in an introductory quest.

We met Allisaie in the carriage cut scene of 2.0, saw her again with her brother around level 15 as we learn about airships and commemorations, know she had a quarrel with her brother about his methods (it's in the cut scenes). That's enough background to explain her presence in Heavensward. After that, the story and the character develop together. It's not quite the same thing.

What background needs to be presented to make the 'original' Noah Gabranth real to us as a villain? And why does the clone act as a villain? Is it programmed in the same way it was for the two Allagan clones we've met? In that case, the villainy isn't really villainous ... the clone is just "made that way". Besides, the dream of its creator has been fulfilled, right?

They turned a 'dead' Gaius into a hunter of Ascians. What's to say that the writers won't do the same thing to Noah's clone? The writer of that series of quests in Bozja wants any continuing storyline to be about healing rather than war. It won't be anywhere near the same if a Major Villain pops up from the original story line.

Sure, if the writers can make it believable and worthy of our consideration it might well be cool. But I can't see them shoehorning in that particular recurring villain without pursuing Yet Another War Story Line or forcing players to go through Bozja to get the full feel of villainy. Without the Scions. Without us. Because I hope like heck that we're done with War on Three Continents for at least one expansion.

It had better be a good plot line, set up in 7.x and starting in 8.x.

[thegreatonemal]

I don't think it was shoehorned in. Remember, the bombing of Rabanastre happened in Stormblood shortly before the beginning of 4.1 (which is why it's still smoking in 4.1 when the raid series started). Rabanastre was home to a ceruleum refueling station for the Garlean Empire. Destroying it and the city would only hurt the Garlean Empire's hold on the eastern regions because they would be unable to take the trip as easily. But who was already luckily in the area so they wouldn't need to? The IVth Legion, run by one Noah Gabranth, who sought to create an independent nation of a true meritocracy, where ones merits would determine their place in society, not their race, gender, or country of origin. Essentially a country free of bigotry, or so I think he hoped.

However the Empire fell, possibly sooner than Noah wanted. The Field Records state that the events in Bozja were set up by Noah to be a stalemate so they could keep their strength holding out for as long as possible since they also had to deal with the Dalmascan front. At the same time Noah kept spies and intel going, all of whom told Menenius that Noah was more concerned with the plans of the leaders once Garlean occupation ended. While Bajsaljen was in charge in Bozja, his ideal nation would be formed there. For Dalmasca, Menenius suspected Noah had already sent somebody there to help move things towards his ideals there as well.

The field records also mention that Lyon supposedly killed Noah, despite being faithful to the family for several decades. How Lyon dropped off the scientist responsible for cloning Dabogs (full aether copy complete with memories) to the Resistance without a word and left, how the Resistance has been chasing Lyon constantly. Also how Noah supposedly did not put up a fight before he was killed (remember, he was already dying from a disease), how his corpse was burnt to be unrecognizable, how few have actually seen his face.

Add it all together, and you have Noah planned things in advance to not only create his ideal country (which he has in a sense), but also to allow a clone of his to basically walk away and stay in the shadows to plot in the future.

Again, i will stand by my thought that Noah Gabranth is one hell of a planner and a clone of him would make for a very interesting recurring villain.

He was ordered to raze the city to the ground in response to their uprising because the rebels revolted emboldened by the victories elsewhere. He sought that but instead of taking his very loyal soldiers back home to Landis after Varis's death he instead decides to set up a brand new nation, the current ones still on that land be damned, only one of which actually had any major problems.

Letting your own death be the end of the fighting is all well and good there just didn't need to be a fight and if there was going to be a fight then his goal should have been getting rid of factions who were conductive to building better nation through said fighting. He had the spies to do that. Instead it involved getting a hold of the only other person who can create a resonant and using that tech to bring a primal from Bozjan legend into existence.

His idea was good though not original the Bozjans planned from the start to be a better nation and the other two didn't need such help especially if Ashe is actually alive.

Noah and his father were always planning to betray the empire. I'm sure that's what emet was counting on when he raised them to their position, a position non garleans are not allowed to hold in the first place

[Iscah]

And what happens if the clone decides they do not want to follow in the footsteps of the Master?

That doesn't really change anything. Either way he has the memories and appearance of Noah van Gabranth without actually being the same character involved in the questline, leaving the possibility that we can meet the two independent Noahs "out of order" and don't need the Bozja events to have happened first. They are separate entities who can be pursuing their individual agendas regardless of the other's status.

And absolutely nothing else. How can a villain be "recurring" without us having come across them before? How are we to evaluate their current actions, to feel like this is indeed someone worthy of our attention just because an NPC says so in an introductory quest.

If they did bring this "second Noah" into the plotline, it would likely not lean heavily on Bozja at all – just a line or two that can vary according to your completion status before spinning off on its own path.

He was such a non-character in Bozja that there isn't even the problem of meeting him "for the first time again".