A game for 4 year olds

[jameseoakes]

That largely depends on your interpretation of that scene. Did Emet-Selch savagely attack Meteion with a bouquet of aetheric flowers in order to defeat her, or did we simply win over her heart in a battle of dynamis? I don't think it's all that difficult to figure out which.

What are you talking about, from what I remember the whole point of that scene was to show to Metion that there was more that despair at Ultima Thule.

[Cleretic]

A bit of splitting hairs there, but that’s fine.

Atonement can just as easily mean repaying a debt or making things right for wrongs committed (aka jail time form a crime), and redemption can just as easily carry heavy religious connotations (aka redeemed from sin).

That is to say, a murderer with a 20 year sentence might repent and find God and have redemption 5 years into his sentence, but he is still serving those 20 years to atone for his crimes in the eyes of society.

Ultimately, when I say a story of redemption, I don’t think anyone is going to confuse what I mean.

My terminology might not be perfect, but we're definitely looking at a story of internally-motivated betterment with the Omicrons more than we are an external one. And personally I find those stories a lot more compelling and believable, in large part because it more readily allows the audience not to believe it if they don't want to. If that arc is mostly for their own sake, then the story rarely ends up asking you to agree with their improvement, which leads to me finding my own stance much more.

The game lets you hate Gaius even after everything, it doesn't really let you hate Fordola. (lucky for me I don't, Fordola was the best part of Stormblood.)

[Alleo]

Honestly for me the omicrons are fine because they are recreations of dead beings and their race already suffered the consequences of their actions. They paid the price for their actions with the destruction of their whole race. Just like how the (absolutely cute!) fishpeople have brought their own death by polluting their planet.

They have suffered and then afterwards were bascially locked up into Meteions prison for thousand of years. Suffering and in pain (as Meteion states before she flew into the bubble) Now they get a second chance at life by being recreated with some of the memories of the past still with them.

I mean if Emet Selch one day gets reborn should we still paint the new person as a villian that slew countless of stars too?

[Absimiliard]

The uh... Omicrons weren't destroyed. They still exist, unchanged but in stasis for the time being. Their mirrors in Ultima Thule even went so far as to try and reactivate them, knowing it would doom all life in the universe. In fact, that was precisely why the faux Omicrons wanted to reactivate them. They want to "improve" themselves only as a means of survival, not because they in any way regret the actions of their templates. They've even said they would resume their mission if they could. In other words, barring some retcons or some really weird writing, the Omicrons remain an existential threat to everything. What's to stop them from trying to send another signal to the originals? Their reactivation means the end of all life.

We as players are of course well aware the writing is highly unlikely to take a dark turn like that. More and more, the game has been steering away from things that are vantablack levels of dark. Whatever final outcome the Omicrons get, it will somehow be something wholesome. And this is where I've taken umbrage, not at the concept of a former enemy bettering themselves. In this case it's a bunch of machines, most of whom do not even have free will to start with, being set up to undergo a profound internal change, in complete defiance of their programming. Even Omega, the most advanced thing to ever come from them (and having evolved well beyond its original programming and limitations) could never fully free itself from its Omicron mindset.

I wouldn't have taken issue with it at all if the writers spelled out how these behaviors were absolutely empty and being undertaken for purely pragmatic reasons. Faux or real, the one thing the Omicrons were programmed to do above all else was survive. Playing nice could very easily be construed in this manner, and it would make perfect sense.

And as for Emet-Selch? If the reborn Emet-Selch were to attempt something that would result in the destruction of another world, yes, at that point they could be held to account whether or not the plan succeeded. Intention matters a lot, and a good deal of what we've seen of the Omicrons indicates their intentions are still very hostile.

[kaynide]

My terminology might not be perfect, but we're definitely looking at a story of internally-motivated betterment with the Omicrons more than we are an external one. And personally I find those stories a lot more compelling and believable, in large part because it more readily allows the audience not to believe it if they don't want to. If that arc is mostly for their own sake, then the story rarely ends up asking you to agree with their improvement, which leads to me finding my own stance much more.

The game lets you hate Gaius even after everything, it doesn't really let you hate Fordola. (lucky for me I don't, Fordola was the best part of Stormblood.)

No worries- I follow what your saying, and I agree- the overall narrative in places of XIV of improvement for its own intrinsic worth is usually a good story…and there have absolutely been some really weird/crap points in the plot when we have agree with things because “I dunno, reasons I guess”.

[kaynide]

What's to stop them from trying to send another signal to the originals? Their reactivation means the end of all life.

The one boss Omicron who decided not to- that was the entire point of that section…that the Copycroms (at least due to their leader) decided there was more to life than destruction, literally doing the opposite in nurturing that tree.

The entire point there was to show them as no longer needing to be massively destructive. The Alpha/Omega sidequest in 6.x only reaffirms this when Omega wants nothing more than to figure out what “heart” is and gets confused-yet-appreciative of our companionship. I forget the details but it was along the lines of there being more life than just being strong.

[Scott]

I found this new Tribal quest incredible charming and heartwarming

[Absimiliard]

The one boss Omicron who decided not to- that was the entire point of that section…that the Copycroms (at least due to their leader) decided there was more to life than destruction, literally doing the opposite in nurturing that tree.

The entire point there was to show them as no longer needing to be massively destructive. The Alpha/Omega sidequest in 6.x only reaffirms this when Omega wants nothing more than to figure out what “heart” is and gets confused-yet-appreciative of our companionship. I forget the details but it was along the lines of there being more life than just being strong.

That "one boss Omicron" is not the only one capable of issuing commands, and the others do still want to resume their original mission.

Omega may have had a change of "heart," but it remains bound by its Omicron way of thinking. We're told this more than once, with one such instance even seeing confirmation Omega would eventually return to its original mission once it had its answers. Omega has essentially become the Brainiac of FFXIV (which, incidentally, I find very pleasing). Mission's still there, but some parameters are now subject to change.

[SentioftheHoukai]

I'm not completely convinced those here would be able to let go of their preconceived biases and hatred even if we did see Emet-Selch's reincarnation in our lifetime. A certain someone on here implied that the Emet-Selch of Elpis was guilty of the crimes of the Emet-Selch of the 7th Astral Era and beyond and posited this as evidence of Azem's serial bad judgement in picking their allies wisely, and wished for the capability to maliciously list every last atrocity the Elidibus we the WoL know straight to Themis' face just to be an inconsiderate, intolerant ass about it. In other words, many on here have proven through their words and actions that they'd see those who would go on to become the Ascians dished out punitive action for pre-crime.

Combine that with how nobody in game or out seems to care that we're entreating fairly with the literal Terminator mass murderers who demonstrated the willingness and capability to restart their war of conquest, well surely you can comprehend why I have little to no faith in this fandom's ability to judge people fairly and evenly without being tainted by preconceived bias based on the atrocities of a fictional race. It really is quite laughable when you think about it. The devs' build of the 'canon' WoL is no better in this regard, picking and choosing when to be absolutely affronted by evil, and who is somehow through some asinine, insane logic is for whatever reason worthy of all-encompassing, ultimate forgiveness.

[Lyth]

The Omicron existential crisis was around losing track of their sense of self through an endless series of augmentations. It was the opposite of most conquering empires - they had no sense of ego or 'self' strong enough to give them purpose and push them onwards to further conquests, which eventually pulled their society into a standstill. There was no mission. They desired no legacy. They had nothing to prove.

This sort of setup could always be exploited to turn them against us, but I'm sure that Omega would have something to say about that.