A game for 4 year olds

[Tehmon]

I just want them to tackle the growing influence the WoL has in the expansions to come. I'm kinda sad they didn't go all Dragon Age: Inquisition Trespasser DLC for the Endwalker post-patches where the scions and WoL are more or less forced to go underground because of their growing political influence and power as well, making some political parties, nations and communities nervous for how much their influence keeps growing over theirs, and how that might cause unneeded conflict and tension in a world that's trying to get their lives back in order after the Final Days.

[RukoBoshi]

I just want them to tackle the growing influence the WoL has in the expansions to come. I'm kinda sad they didn't go all Dragon Age: Inquisition Trespasser DLC for the Endwalker post-patches where the scions and WoL are more or less forced to go underground because of their growing political influence and power as well, making some political parties, nations and communities nervous for how much their influence keeps growing over theirs, and how that might cause unneeded conflict and tension in a world that's trying to get their lives back in order after the Final Days.

I may have misunderstood, but wasn't that the point of officially disbanding the Scions ?
So that the governments of the world can't rely on us anymore, but by extension we also lost the advantages that came with the organization ?

Now we officially are back to being an adventurer and the former scions are just "regular people", without the scion status we don't officially hold the same weight.
Of course we are personally friends with most countries leaders, so we still have benefits.
But now that we don't have title, fundings and a reason to fight, i imagine it will be harder to have much political influence on anything.

[KageTokage]

Honestly, we don't even need something that big; we just need two things to happen at once, anywhere, to split our focus. Especially if someone thinks to knock out an aetheryte (which we already know works from Stormblood), or one of those events is far enough away from one in the first place.

And a bit of an 'unseen storm' character would certainly be new. I feel like to some, the fact Zenos and Ran'jit were quantifiable foes that they could theoretically win fights against made it hard to swallow actually losing to them, but going up against someone who's won before we even turn up would really build up some mystery.

I think just having more problems that can't be solved with our specialty of brute force is enough to keep things interesting. A villain who's flexing political influence as opposed to raw strength could present a unique problem., and they already dabbled in that to a degree with the Monetarists though the issue kind of ended up resolving itself given that Lolorito decided it was in his best interests to not continue working against the Scions in the long term.

Yeah... post-apocalyptic areas can be really fun to run around, but smashing up everything for the sake of drama feels cheap.

I am kind of hoping that if we go to Ilsabard one of the zones will be a place that was badly damaged by the Final Days as a tangible reminder of how horribly things could've gone for the entire world if we hadn't won. Right now, it feels very...forgettable given that nobody of particular import succumbed, nor can you tell anything even went wrong in the first place in any of the existing zones.

Even though things were largely fixed up after the seventh calamity, those giant masses of corrupted crystal left in Bahamut's wake serve as a permanent reminder of destruction he had wrought.

[kaynide]

I think just having more problems that can't be solved with our specialty of brute force is enough to keep things interesting. A villain who's flexing political influence as opposed to raw strength could present a unique problem., and they already dabbled in that to a degree with the Monetarists though the issue kind of ended up resolving itself given that Lolorito decided it was in his best interests to not continue working against the Scions in the long term.

This is a good direction also;

I kind of thought we might have gone that way in Garlemald...but ehh.

I had suggested months waaaay back as an idea to come to a situation where our team simply doesn't have or can't offer the best solution. Not that we are "wrong", but that our ideal is just not the solution. The point being that we have to learn what's best for the people in question and then offer to assist in a way that they want.

Dealing with the remaining legions could be a good way to do this- as I hope the goal would not be to subjugate them or even remove them from Corvos, but help them find a way to settle somewhere peace peacefully... probably with a lot of politics in play.

[DPZ2]

The questline only allows for introspective thought if you have the mental capacity of a 4 year old. Otherwise you should have grown out of such nonsensical drivel already.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

[Cleretic]

I think just having more problems that can't be solved with our specialty of brute force is enough to keep things interesting. A villain who's flexing political influence as opposed to raw strength could present a unique problem., and they already dabbled in that to a degree with the Monetarists though the issue kind of ended up resolving itself given that Lolorito decided it was in his best interests to not continue working against the Scions in the long term.

I think the struggle with presenting those sorts of opponents in a game like this is... well, how do you resolve it? Okay, they're a character that manipulates the situation politically to make it so that we, as someone whose skillset is primarily Big Fight Idiot, can't just muscle in on; that's actually pretty decent as a starting pitch for how to add complications, we've seen shades of that with the Syndicate, with Thordan, with Yotsuyu, even with Vauthry.

But how do you actually get that problem solved in a satisfying way, in a game where the main content is pretty much entirely combat-focused? If it just devolves into a fight, then the end climax for that villain completely throws away their main appeal and skillset up to now (which incidentally is the main reason I hate the Tsukuyomi fight). But if it ends in a way that's much closer to their side of the court, like how the Syndicate usurpation storyline went, then that feels like an anticlimax from the angle of 'but why don't we get to punch out the bad guy'.

It's not a completely unsolvable problem, and plenty of games people actually quite like have ended in 'now fight the king/emperor/pope who may or may not have a super form', but it's one you have to handle carefully, otherwise you end in some form of anticlimax. I think FFXIV actually got closest with pre-patches Yotsuyu; I think they could've really gotten somewhere making Doma Castle essentially her 'boss fight' without her actually fighting if you bigged up her actual presence in it. I once heard the suggestion of her giving increasingly furious and unhinged PA system commands during it, let the VA go full Rita Repulsa, that would've done great to essentially give her a finale without forcing a character not suited for fighting to fight us.

[MikkoAkure]

Dealing with the remaining legions could be a good way to do this- as I hope the goal would not be to subjugate them or even remove them from Corvos, but help them find a way to settle somewhere peace peacefully... probably with a lot of politics in play.

At this point Corvos isn’t an option anymore. The Corvosi fully rebelled against them amidst the Final Days and the Blasphemy capstone quest has the survivors flee across Ilsabard to Garlemald with many dying along the way.

Right now the Garlean legions are a lot like the Ascians in that we know for a fact many of them have been destroyed or surrendered, but we don’t know what happened to the rest and it’s likely they were dealt with off-screen. The Garleans fought two civil wars back-to-back along with rebellions throughout its empire and it’s likely that they’ve been defanged. The Ilsabard Contingent practically waltzed into the Garlean homeland without a major battle like the Ghimlyt Dark. The Xth legion, whom Cinna expected to back him up, immediately surrendered off-screen without a fight and even helped Eorzea by giving the command to him to stand down. That tells me that the Garlean military doesn’t have the strength to fight anymore or solve their own problems and that the situation is more dire than we’ve been led to believe. I hope the Xth legion legatus or acting legatus actually appears on-screen to explain things.

The Blasphemy capstone quest already deals with the “what to do with the Garleans”, and some go to Sharlayan, some go to the Moon, and most seem to stay in Garlemald and hope to rebuild. Corvos was said to be too politically risky because they were successfully routed there. I just hope this doesn’t end up like the void quests where the storyline is abandoned on a cliffhanger and they come back in the next expansion to deal with it without acknowledging the role capstone quests.

I’ve heard a lot of people suggest the Vth legion could be in the New World because of something to do with FFV could fit it there. If that’s the case, it would be nice if we end up working alongside them after some initial misunderstandings against a greater enemy. We’ve fought the Garleans in many different ways over the past 12 years and it would be nice to do something different.

[KageTokage]

I think the struggle with presenting those sorts of opponents in a game like this is... well, how do you resolve it? Okay, they're a character that manipulates the situation politically to make it so that we, as someone whose skillset is primarily Big Fight Idiot, can't just muscle in on; that's actually pretty decent as a starting pitch for how to add complications, we've seen shades of that with the Syndicate, with Thordan, with Yotsuyu, even with Vauthry.

But how do you actually get that problem solved in a satisfying way, in a game where the main content is pretty much entirely combat-focused? If it just devolves into a fight, then the end climax for that villain completely throws away their main appeal and skillset up to now (which incidentally is the main reason I hate the Tsukuyomi fight). But if it ends in a way that's much closer to their side of the court, like how the Syndicate usurpation storyline went, then that feels like an anticlimax from the angle of 'but why don't we get to punch out the bad guy'.

It's not a completely unsolvable problem, and plenty of games people actually quite like have ended in 'now fight the king/emperor/pope who may or may not have a super form', but it's one you have to handle carefully, otherwise you end in some form of anticlimax. I think FFXIV actually got closest with pre-patches Yotsuyu; I think they could've really gotten somewhere making Doma Castle essentially her 'boss fight' without her actually fighting if you bigged up her actual presence in it. I once heard the suggestion of her giving increasingly furious and unhinged PA system commands during it, let the VA go full Rita Repulsa, that would've done great to essentially give her a finale without forcing a character not suited for fighting to fight us.

I find most stories with politically-inclined villains tend to either:

1. Suddenly reveal them to be extremely powerful and capable in a direct confrontation like Vayne from FFXII.

2. Give them some kind of superweapon or power-up to make them able to put up a fight (Which more or less happened with Thordan).

3. Have a subordinate who's the actual powerhouse you end up dealing with (Ran'jit kinda fit that role until Vauthry turned out to be an inhuman abomination).

4. Make their endgame be to summon some some manner of powerful entity you end up fighting instead of them.


I personally can draw satisfaction just from seeing a villain being brought to justice by the person/people they wronged, and don't necessarily need to fight them directly to get that.

[Travel]

I think just having more problems that can't be solved with our specialty of brute force is enough to keep things interesting. A villain who's flexing political influence as opposed to raw strength could present a unique problem., and they already dabbled in that to a degree with the Monetarists though the issue kind of ended up resolving itself given that Lolorito decided it was in his best interests to not continue working against the Scions in the long term.



I am kind of hoping that if we go to Ilsabard one of the zones will be a place that was badly damaged by the Final Days as a tangible reminder of how horribly things could've gone for the entire world if we hadn't won. Right now, it feels very...forgettable given that nobody of particular import succumbed, nor can you tell anything even went wrong in the first place in any of the existing zones.

Even though things were largely fixed up after the seventh calamity, those giant masses of corrupted crystal left in Bahamut's wake serve as a permanent reminder of destruction he had wrought.

Still just a little bit miffed we never got a chance to kick Lolorito's teeth in; granted, I could say that about a number of villains in the game.

Also... yeah, the impact of the apocalypse-level Final Days really doesn't feel all that severe in hindsight, what with the lack of important characters dying, as well as the lack of visible damage. I mean, even the side content such as the Nier raids had at least some visible effect on the world around; it just seems weird that the Final Days didn't seem to do much.

At this point Corvos isn’t an option anymore. The Corvosi fully rebelled against them amidst the Final Days and the Blasphemy capstone quest has the survivors flee across Ilsabard to Garlemald with many dying along the way.

I think it would be interesting if we do get to go to Corvus; from what I remember reading about the lore, it was the Corvosi people that originally ended up driving the Garleans up north in the first place, and basically pushed them into becoming the magitek empire that they were in-game.

[Carin-Eri]

I just want them to tackle the growing influence the WoL has in the expansions to come. I'm kinda sad they didn't go all Dragon Age: Inquisition Trespasser DLC for the Endwalker post-patches where the scions and WoL are more or less forced to go underground because of their growing political influence and power as well, making some political parties, nations and communities nervous for how much their influence keeps growing over theirs, and how that might cause unneeded conflict and tension in a world that's trying to get their lives back in order after the Final Days.

Agreed. If anything they've almost taken the opposite direction, with precious few NPCs actually referring to our character as the Warrior of Light anymore.