The Lessons Not Learned.

[Avatre]

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

Please see bolded part from my initial post in this thread.

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?

[VelKallor]

Just copy SB relic and continue Bozja/the IV legion story for starter. Smh.

And thus gate it behind Bozja, which in turn was gated behind Ivalice.

Not to mention virtually no one does it now, finding people for DR is a headache. I liked what i saw of it, but tbh it wasnt future proofed, same with Eureka.

[LianaThorne]

A person engaged in covert advertising. The shill attempts to spread buzz by personally endorsing the product in public forums with the pretense of sincerity, when in fact he is being paid for his services.

A shill, also called a plant or a stooge, is a person who publicly helps or gives credibility to a person or organization without disclosing that they have a close relationship with said person or organization.
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Just gonna leave these here because it's kinda laughable when people throw words around that they don't know the full meaning to. To be a shill, you kinda need to be in close association with/hired by the company in the question. It's not just anyone with an opinion that doesn't match yours & is in favor of the game is a shill.
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Oh this one is great for shill too:

A word used by conspiracy theorists when they are losing an argument.
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Thanks for coming to my TedTalk, have a good day.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

Just gonna leave these here because it's kinda laughable when people throw words around that they don't know the full meaning to. To be a shill, you kinda need to be in close association with/hired by the company in the question. It's not just anyone with an opinion that doesn't match yours & is in favor of the game is a shill.

PFFFT, people actually understanding the meaning of the Words they use?
Nah, stop that noise, just throw it around cause its a cool sounding Buzzword.

[SentioftheHoukai]

So basically if you call someone they're 100% a tried n true shill...because you say so? Not how that works. You operate on this notion that people complaining are always in the right. Folks complaining are no more right than folks defending. Each have a right to do as such. The forums are a place for feedback negative AND positive.

I'll compromise, if we can call defenders fanboys n shills, we can call complainers haters. Only fair

(Also is you you DID know what the word means you wouldn't be using it the way you have)

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.

[IkaraGreydancer]

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.

Seems like a 2 way issue. People calling folks haters and people calling folks shills. This is the sort of stupid bickering that I imagine keeps the devs from speaking here. It's a clown show

[aveyond-dreams]

If I can counter your complaint a bit here: I think the dungeon content was approached just like Island Sanctuary. They were not sure if people would even like it because its a new project they took on. So they kept it rather limited. Why add so much rewards to it if no one likes it by chance? If the project is a major success; I am pretty sure they will have content not just for Uldah, but for Limsa, Gridania, Ishgard, and perhaps more/new locations. Every release will add more and more rewards, and any late player coming in will think of it like a treasure trove. If they put a ton of rewards at the get go, most players will expect that all the time, and therefore they need to spread it out. (Though I do understand waiting is frustrating.)

You’ve just described a self-fulfilling prophecy. Players do content that has rewards they are interested in. The more rewards there are, the more they do it. There are only a handful of rewards and most of them not very compelling attached to this content. They’ve all but ensured that it won’t last long and that interest in doing it will drop sharply after a certain point, with whatever engagement metrics they use reflecting that.

As for the relic; relics in every expansion is always a grind. However think of it this way; they only gave us the first step of the weapon and now we have to wait for the next update. You will in fact have more than enough time to get 1,500 astronomy tomes for several weapons of your choosing. Heck you could even get all of the first step weapons before the next patch if you ran your rolos everyday, and do other content that drops the tomes. Its not hard to accumulate them with the amount of time they give us between patches. It only will feel like a real grind when a player is late to the show to where one has to do all of the steps back to back, and the grind gets intense. So that is why its easy at the moment, because we are just starting at step 1. I have no idea how good the items will look, but I do know they are trying to appeal to new players more so than veterans.

We wanted something to do that was a little more compelling than run the same content we’ve been running all the time even more. Hence why well-balanced relic zones like Bozja and Zadnor were breaths of fresh air, or even having a reason to hang out in the overworld doing fates in current-expansion zones. To quote another poster:

I don't want a free weapon. I want something to do.

Moving on then.

But let me be honest here; do I think they did the 100% perfect job for rewards? I honestly can't answer. I do feel its rather subjective. If we did not get detective clothes, but instead got a fairy princess glam; the community will still have major agreements and disagreements about that too. Tons of people will support it because its the new thing, and a lot won't. Same thing is happening with what is current. Its hard to please everyone, so I am only speaking from a neutral standpoint.

What this content should’ve received is gear that was actually useful, as in I can equip it for stats. Preferably with aesthetics that make sense in the context of the given content. I am not going to entertain anyone that tries to claim that this detective gear is appropriate for a storyline that has to deal with desert ruins. Eureka Pyros and Hydatos rewarded intricate armor pieces that drew upon some aesthetics from Amano artwork. Bozja rewarded gear for its warzone, and then the more Ivalice got involved the more Ivalice gear they gave in Zadnor. WoW Mythic content also rewards gear, so I have no idea why they thought they would get away with just dumping this glamset and unappealing mounts on us and bailing.

[IkaraGreydancer]

You’ve just described a self-fulfilling prophecy. Players do content that has rewards they are interested in. The more rewards there are, the more they do it. There are only a handful of rewards and most of them not very compelling attached to this content. They’ve all but ensured that it won’t last long and that interest in doing it will drop sharply after a certain point, with whatever engagement metrics they use reflecting that.



We wanted something to do that was a little more compelling than run the same content we’ve been running all the time even more. Hence why well-balanced relic zones like Bozja and Zadnor were breaths of fresh air, or even having a reason to hang out in the overworld doing fates in current-expansion zones. To quote another poster:



Moving on then.



What this content should’ve received is gear that was actually useful, as in I can equip it for stats. Preferably with aesthetics that make sense in the context of the given content. I am not going to entertain anyone that tries to claim that this detective gear is appropriate for a storyline that has to deal with desert ruins. Eureka Pyros and Hydatos rewarded intricate armor pieces that drew upon some aesthetics from Amano artwork. Bozja rewarded gear for its warzone, and then the more Ivalice got involved the more Ivalice gear they gave in Zadnor. WoW Mythic content also rewards gear, so I have no idea why they thought they would get away with just dumping this glamset and unappealing mounts on us and bailing.

Well I for one will be doing the content cause it's fun to do. The rewards are just extra for me. Hell I may nab the glam for Halloween Parties.

If WoW Mythic does it better hey, WoW is a sub away. We already have numerous ways to get gear in the game. I for one am not bent outta shape that they didn't add another.

Boz n Zad weren't exactly fresh air as they were basically Eureka 2.0 but less engaging. Those zone were just glorified hunt trains (fun ones mind you).

[KageTokage]

Considering that both Eureka and Bozja had "catch-up" gear that was slightly worse then the best stuff available in the same patch cycle, maybe 6.3 will have it available from the new deep dungeon or something.

[Atelier-Bagur]

But haven't almost all relics started with a stupid easy, done in no time flat, first step? The only one I can think of that took any time was ARR when you had to go out into the world to find the treasure that got turned into the relic. The others were mostly tomestone related, were they not(been a while since I did them, so I could be wrong on some of them)?

That's literally what I've been saying but people love to play ignorant.

Seriously who cares. I'm sure later down the road when people start hating on the relic grind again they'll look back at how nice and easy the first few steps are.