The Lessons Not Learned.

[Midareyukki]

That's generally the impression given when an FF9 fan tries to claim it was more popular than FF8 or 10.

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

[VictorSpoils]

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

I'm familiar with this gimmick. It's alright if those are your opinions, but it should be worded that way. No point in trying to play arbiter for an entire fanbase, especially when it's this off-base.

[Midareyukki]

I'm familiar with this gimmick. It's alright if those are your opinions, but it should be worded that way. No point in trying to play arbiter for an entire fanbase, especially when it's this off-base.

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother with you. This is all stuff you can find quite easily going through old forums. Call it a gimmick, call it whatever you want. I'm not going to entertain this bull any further.

[VictorSpoils]

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother with you. This is all stuff you can find quite easily going through old forums. Call it a gimmick, call it whatever you want. I'm not going to entertain this bull any further.

Well, this did veer off-topic anyway. Sorry you seemed to have an issue with Fran and whatnot, but you're most likely in the minority there, and FF9 definitely had gameplay issues (among other things).

[vanaii]

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

All this tells me is Final Fantasy delights in deliberately failing any "what is Final Fantasy" purity test thrown at it.

[Midareyukki]

All this tells me is Final Fantasy delights in deliberately failing any "what is Final Fantasy" purity test thrown at it.

xD Oh but that isn't a flaw of the series imo. That's a flaw of the playerbase. People just expected future games to be the same as before, but FF almost never was that. Closest I can remember to two games being so similar were FF3 and FF5, with 5 expanding on the Job system. There isn't a singular grand unified version of what "Final Fantasy" is in terms of plot (you have comedy stories, depressing stories, invigorative stories, emotional stories, futuristic stories...), setting (medieval, cyberpunk, dieselpunk, steampunk, tribal, generic North Indian) or gameplay (ATB, CTB, RTB, ADB, Active X...). What tends to make a game part of the series tends to be certain tropes, certain characters and especially certain motifs. And it's up to each game to apply them as they see fit, even even omit them whenever unnecessary.

Heck, sometimes it's all about the label more than the game itself. That's how we ended up with FF Tactics xD it's such a clear reskin of the original Tactics Ogre, and while it reuses Cloud and some skills, most of it was pretty jarring given all the games released until then.

[vanaii]

xD Oh but that isn't a flaw of the series imo. That's a flaw of the playerbase. People just expected future games to be the same as before, but FF almost never was that. Closest I can remember to two games being so similar were FF3 and FF5, with 5 expanding on the Job system. There isn't a singular grand unified version of what "Final Fantasy" is in terms of plot (you have comedy stories, depressing stories, invigorative stories, emotional stories, futuristic stories...), setting (medieval, cyberpunk, dieselpunk, steampunk, tribal, generic North Indian) or gameplay (ATB, CTB, RTB, ADB, Active X...). What tends to make a game part of the series tends to be certain tropes, certain characters and especially certain motifs. And it's up to each game to apply them as they see fit, even even omit them whenever unnecessary.

Heck, sometimes it's all about the label more than the game itself. That's how we ended up with FF Tactics xD it's such a clear reskin of the original Tactics Ogre, and while it reuses Cloud and some skills, most of it was pretty jarring given all the games released until then.

Oh, I'm not mad about that at all. That's the entire reason why I've been able to stick with the series for so long.

If I get sick of one "flavor," there are other "flavors" out there.

[Absimiliard]

That's generally the impression given when an FF9 fan tries to claim it was more popular than FF8 or 10.

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF8 was received well by critics and had high initial sales, but it lacked staying power. Much of its early success is noted to have been a direct result of Final Fantasy 7 having left such a good impression on players. The junction system was the aspect of the game to receive the most criticism. The handling of Guardian Forces (summons, for those who might read this and haven't played the game) wasn't overly well liked either. The game's a little more fondly remembered these days.

FF9 sold far less than Final Fantasy 8 both initially and overall, but much like FF8's success was due in large part to FF7, a portion of FF9's failure to move copies was attributed to the impression left by Final Fantasy 8. Much of FF9's criticisms were aimed at its weird discount junction system as well as how new skills (and summons) were learned. People didn't particularly like Trance at the time either. The few fans aware of it at the time also heavily disliked the fact getting the best weapon in the game (Excalibur II) required you to sacrifice pretty much everything else.

[Midareyukki]

FF8 was received well by critics and had high initial sales, but it lacked staying power. Much of its early success is noted to have been a direct result of Final Fantasy 7 having left such a good impression on players. The junction system was the aspect of the game to receive the most criticism.

Yes. By critics. FF13 was received rather decently by critics as well if I recall. The issue comes with the community reception itself. Both games were seen as underwhelming, with 13 having quite a lot of community backlash over the linearity, the plot, the style and the characters. Hell, even the lack of the Prelude was brought up. FF14 1.0 coming right after did not help :|

[Absimiliard]

Yes. By critics. FF13 was received rather decently by critics as well if I recall. The issue comes with the community reception itself. Both games were seen as underwhelming, with 13 having quite a lot of community backlash over the linearity, the plot, the style and the characters. Hell, even the lack of the Prelude was brought up. FF14 1.0 coming right after did not help :|

I don't know many people that will call XIII anything but hot garbage. I've not bothered to look into its sales, but I know I would rather get a lead injection to the dome than play that game again.

Also, why exactly is your post framed as if to imply I did not say basically the same thing your reply just did? You essentially reiterated my point while acting as if I said the opposite. This is confusing.