The Lessons Not Learned.

[VictorSpoils]

o,o;; FF12 isn't that popular in the community, by far. A lot of people criticised it back in the day, from its "boring and political" tone to Vaan being annoying. A meme in 2010 was that they thought 12 was the worst until 13 came out.

It's a pretty big community and 12 is one of the most popular ones. The fault would be on these hypothetical people for finding quality boring and an easygoing character annoying.

[Midareyukki]

hypothetical people

I hypothesize you weren't around online as much during 2006 to 2012.

[VictorSpoils]

I hypothesize you weren't around online as much during 2006 to 2012.

That's generally the impression given when an FF9 fan tries to claim it was more popular than FF8 or 10.

[Midareyukki]

That's generally the impression given when an FF9 fan tries to claim it was more popular than FF8 or 10.

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

[VictorSpoils]

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

I'm familiar with this gimmick. It's alright if those are your opinions, but it should be worded that way. No point in trying to play arbiter for an entire fanbase, especially when it's this off-base.

[Midareyukki]

I'm familiar with this gimmick. It's alright if those are your opinions, but it should be worded that way. No point in trying to play arbiter for an entire fanbase, especially when it's this off-base.

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother with you. This is all stuff you can find quite easily going through old forums. Call it a gimmick, call it whatever you want. I'm not going to entertain this bull any further.

[VictorSpoils]

Yeah, I'm not even going to bother with you. This is all stuff you can find quite easily going through old forums. Call it a gimmick, call it whatever you want. I'm not going to entertain this bull any further.

Well, this did veer off-topic anyway. Sorry you seemed to have an issue with Fran and whatnot, but you're most likely in the minority there, and FF9 definitely had gameplay issues (among other things).

[vanaii]

Where have you gotten this from? The conversation is about FF12. You know? Vaan, super political story, Fran fanservice, all those things people hammered for quite a while a decade ago?

Also, isn't FF8 also considered unpopular due to its gameplay and confusing plot past CD1?

FF9 does have its detractors, but it's generally received well for having returned to FF's roots both in setting and gameplay, especially after FF8 showing up with its weird junction system.

Whether FF10 surpasses 9, I can't say, both are generally favoured over most FF games as far as I've seen.

All this tells me is Final Fantasy delights in deliberately failing any "what is Final Fantasy" purity test thrown at it.

[Midareyukki]

All this tells me is Final Fantasy delights in deliberately failing any "what is Final Fantasy" purity test thrown at it.

xD Oh but that isn't a flaw of the series imo. That's a flaw of the playerbase. People just expected future games to be the same as before, but FF almost never was that. Closest I can remember to two games being so similar were FF3 and FF5, with 5 expanding on the Job system. There isn't a singular grand unified version of what "Final Fantasy" is in terms of plot (you have comedy stories, depressing stories, invigorative stories, emotional stories, futuristic stories...), setting (medieval, cyberpunk, dieselpunk, steampunk, tribal, generic North Indian) or gameplay (ATB, CTB, RTB, ADB, Active X...). What tends to make a game part of the series tends to be certain tropes, certain characters and especially certain motifs. And it's up to each game to apply them as they see fit, even even omit them whenever unnecessary.

Heck, sometimes it's all about the label more than the game itself. That's how we ended up with FF Tactics xD it's such a clear reskin of the original Tactics Ogre, and while it reuses Cloud and some skills, most of it was pretty jarring given all the games released until then.

[vanaii]

xD Oh but that isn't a flaw of the series imo. That's a flaw of the playerbase. People just expected future games to be the same as before, but FF almost never was that. Closest I can remember to two games being so similar were FF3 and FF5, with 5 expanding on the Job system. There isn't a singular grand unified version of what "Final Fantasy" is in terms of plot (you have comedy stories, depressing stories, invigorative stories, emotional stories, futuristic stories...), setting (medieval, cyberpunk, dieselpunk, steampunk, tribal, generic North Indian) or gameplay (ATB, CTB, RTB, ADB, Active X...). What tends to make a game part of the series tends to be certain tropes, certain characters and especially certain motifs. And it's up to each game to apply them as they see fit, even even omit them whenever unnecessary.

Heck, sometimes it's all about the label more than the game itself. That's how we ended up with FF Tactics xD it's such a clear reskin of the original Tactics Ogre, and while it reuses Cloud and some skills, most of it was pretty jarring given all the games released until then.

Oh, I'm not mad about that at all. That's the entire reason why I've been able to stick with the series for so long.

If I get sick of one "flavor," there are other "flavors" out there.