The Lessons Not Learned.

[DPZ2]

Interesting that you mention that. It's my personal theory (and probably several others' too) that the best way for a company to get fans to gloss over conspicuous errors is to form a very strong parasocial relationship with them.

That would certainly explain why Cyberpunk 2077 was such a hit at launch.

[DPZ2]

Kind of ironic how this applies to both of you, since it's pretty clear that neither of you remember the first step of the Heavensward relic.
Y'know, the step that required a significant amount of time farming FATEs in every Heavensward zone, for a total of 18 crystals (3 from each zone).

Yeah, the 2 1/2 hours I spent running FATEs in a single day were totally significant. It was problematic as well, since I ended up with 5 'extra' crystals that I didn't really want for the next job's grind. They're still in a retainer's bags somewhere I think.

[DPZ2]

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.

I suspect that you were one of them, however. Especially since you remember the 2.0 grind for the initial Zodiac relic weapon.

[SentioftheHoukai]

So basically if you call someone they're 100% a tried n true shill...because you say so? Not how that works. You operate on this notion that people complaining are always in the right. Folks complaining are no more right than folks defending. Each have a right to do as such. The forums are a place for feedback negative AND positive.

I'll compromise, if we can call defenders fanboys n shills, we can call complainers haters. Only fair

(Also is you you DID know what the word means you wouldn't be using it the way you have)

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.

[Tiramu]

I think a major problem is the gulf between normal difficulty content, and extreme/savage. Extreme difficulty is a sweet spot for many people. Harder than normal, but not the steep penalty for failure like savage. And yet, we only really get one of those EX trials every several months or whatever. Meanwhile, if you enjoy normal difficulty content, that's like 95% of the game, and if you enjoy savage+, there're 4 raids per tier and an ultimate for you to sink your teeth into. The midcore people get lost in the middle. I haven't done the new Criterion dungeons yet, so I can't say if it scratches that itch or not. A relic could tide people over who just want something to do, but the way it was implemented, you can be done with it in a single day. Maybe more if you're gearing multiple jobs, but yeah. And the dungeons you grind for tomes aren't exactly fun. The level 90 dungeons are really lackluster this time around; I don't even look forward to doing expert roulette anymore because troia's a boring dungeon with an add boss, and the other one is just old at this point.

Basically if you're the type of person who's bored by normal difficulty stuff but either can't get 8 people together for savage or you just aren't interested in the prog process of wiping for potentially weeks because of other people, you get 1 EX trial roughly every time a new tier comes out and that is it. And people sorta stop running it after the first week because of how the content rollouts work. For example, when Barb EX came out, a week later the new savage came out so everyone I knew stopped caring about barb EX and the PF quality plummeted. I might be off-base here but I think the game's making a mistake by not appealing to this middle of the road group. Maybe criterion dungeons will scratch that itch. idk. People have been asking for harder dungeons for years, but the way the devs phrased its implementation, it sounded like they wanted to just make even more shit for the savage raiding crowd, since it's tuned for savage bis. I genuinely wonder if there's even a place for mid-tier difficulty stuff in this game anymore.

Sorry, am I being daft, but whats the steep penalty for failing a Savage? XIV has no discernable penalties for failure. Just keep going until you win/get your reward.

Otherwise, I agree with the thrust of what you're saying.

[Nezerius]

Yeah, the 2 1/2 hours I spent running FATEs in a single day were totally significant. It was problematic as well, since I ended up with 5 'extra' crystals that I didn't really want for the next job's grind. They're still in a retainer's bags somewhere I think.

Oh sure, you must've hardcore grinded for those Crystals when that first step was released. In fact, you must've put in so much effort that you were completely burned out to even bother with the 2nd or 3rd step!

I suspect that you were one of them, however. Especially since you remember the 2.0 grind for the initial Zodiac relic weapon.

You "suspect" that I was one of them, despite me stating that I finished three Zeta weapons during ARR. How exactly does this change my point that the majority went into Heavensward without one?

[IkaraGreydancer]

Sure, but I too know what truly defines a "hater" as you put it. Most here don't, and simply use it as a blanket term to discredit valid critique. This behaviour has risen in frequency and intensity since the release of Endwalker, which has since defined Final Fantasy XIV as the best MMO that has ever existed and will ever exist. As well as establishing Yoshida Naoki as the the infallible God he always has been.

Seems like a 2 way issue. People calling folks haters and people calling folks shills. This is the sort of stupid bickering that I imagine keeps the devs from speaking here. It's a clown show

[DPZ2]

Oh sure, you must've hardcore grinded for those Crystals when that first step was released. In fact, you must've put in so much effort that you were completely burned out to even bother with the 2nd or 3rd step!

Hardcore grind? Hardly. 20-30 FATEs in a few hours was a normal weekend activity for me in HW seven years ago. I took one look at the relic, didn't like the look and abandoned any further relic grinding. I had been burned once before when I lost my nice glowing bow after the 2nd phase back in ARR and abandoned that. Since then, I've had a number of show-glowy weapons that, somehow, just don't seem all that worthwhile.

[SannaR]

This may come as a surprise to you, but not everyone was running around with a Zeta relic by the time 3.15 was released.

Anecdotal evidence much? Just because you somehow didn't notice a lot of people not owning a Zeta by the time the HW relics started doesn't mean a lot of people had at least one. I remember people starting it and groaning about Atma farm 2.0 only to stop groaning the instant someone said they could just hand over their Zeta. Cause they could just go and skip the fate grind. I don't think I heard a lot of grumbling about HW til needing the sand.

I'm just glad any "materia" slotting in stopped with the ARR one. And really you got the base weapon for the ARR one fairly easily since the starter you just needed to get it crafted and have the correct tier three materia melded.

[DiaDeem]

I don't know what to tell you. I've been enjoy myself like I haven't since Endwalker first launched.
Sorry you're not enjoying the content.