The Lessons Not Learned.

[aveyond-dreams]

1) Many players have yet to do Hildibrand. This means they will have hours of cutscenes ahead of them. Some might not like this content, but Endwalker was 40 hours of cutscenes and two hours of raiding (not including queue times). People like this, so I’m sure they’ll like the relics too.

2) The devs have always said that this is a “stop-and-go” type of game. Yoshida tells us to unsubscribe when we’re bored. He and SE clearly don’t expect this game to hold our attention like World of Warcraft or other MMOs, and that’s fine. That game charges a sub too, and I don’t want to pay two at once. Just do as Yoshida says and sub a couple times a year. It’s a small game and most of it is reading. I like reading, but I read fast, so this game is over quickly for me. That’s just how FFXIV is, just like the other Final Fantasy games. Play it, finish it, and put it down. It’s not a “serious” MMO.

The first paragraph is such a disingenuous take that I will not bother giving it a full response.

As for the second, so it's not the devs fault for not making any long-lasting content with sufficient rewards attached, it's our fault for wanting to play?

[Kaurhz]

I'm pretty sure the relics in Shadowbringers were only 1000 poetics each, and if my memory serves me correctly I think the first one was actually free for players. I just think they've ultimately changed their idea on the purpose and 'difficulty' of actually getting a stage 1 relic.

[Oizen]

2) The devs have always said that this is a “stop-and-go” type of game. Yoshida tells us to unsubscribe when we’re bored. He and SE clearly don’t expect this game to hold our attention like World of Warcraft or other MMOs, and that’s fine. That game charges a sub too, and I don’t want to pay two at once. Just do as Yoshida says and sub a couple times a year. It’s a small game and most of it is reading. I like reading, but I read fast, so this game is over quickly for me. That’s just how FFXIV is, just like the other Final Fantasy games. Play it, finish it, and put it down. It’s not a “serious” MMO.

If thats the case then why is this a subscription based game? Why are there so many systems in place specifically designed to take a large period of time to keep you paying that sub? Arbitrary loot lockouts, a hilariously long lottery cycle on houses to keep you checking back, daily/weekly limits on certain pieces of content so you don't' go through it too fast, ect.
Like I get it, Yoshida LOVES to say things that make himself look good in interviews, but that doesn't make them true of FFXIV. Yoshida is just a suit and a glory hound, excellent businessman really but I wouldn't put too much stock into anything he says.

The real answer, and the answer you don't want to hear is, FFXIV is already profitable.
It doesn't need more development costs, infact now that its so profitable we can cut money from its development in order to drive those profit margins up even more.

So far I would say this expansion has exemplified that the amount of content and attention FFXIV gets moving forward is only going to decrease.

[caffe_macchiato]

it's our fault for wanting to play?

Yes. In a free market, anyone can charge money for anything else, and people will buy based on the perceived value. The only thing SE execs care about is revenue. If the product isn’t worth it, we need to demonstrate that by unsubscribing. I plan on doing the same. It’s our job to look after ourselves, not a multi-billion dollar company.

If thats the case then why is this a subscription based game?

Good question. I don’t think it should be given the pace of content. A better business model would be to sell content passes a la carte so people can play at their own pace, but that’s very experimental and this is SE.

[ViniciusGGR]

It's normal for the first relic stage to be easier. Things start to pick up at second or third stage... Having to go through all the Hildibrand quests is already a pain, so it's fair for the first relic to be easy to get. Also, I expected the gear to be 620. I already have the 615 from Stormcrown extreme, so this stage one relic is only useful for glamour and even so, without the glow, it doesn't look better than the one I already have. So I guess this relic is not very attractive to people who do harder content.

[Deveryn]

It's normal for the first relic stage to be easier. Things start to pick up at second or third stage... Having to go through all the Hildibrand quests is already a pain, so it's fair for the first relic to be easy to get. Also, I expected the gear to be 620. I already have the 615 from Stormcrown extreme, so this stage one relic is only useful for glamour and even so, without the glow, it doesn't look better than the one I already have. So I guess this relic is not very attractive to people who do harder content.

The last relic in each stage is always at the same level at the EX reward.

The final reward is very attractive to those that do ultimates because it has no meld slots and customizable stats (easy BiS). Even for more casual play, it's great to have for all the content and even the upcoming cap raise.

[Nezerius]

1) Many players have yet to do Hildibrand. This means they will have hours of cutscenes ahead of them. Some might not like this content, but Endwalker was 40 hours of cutscenes and two hours of raiding (not including queue times). People like this, so I’m sure they’ll like the relics too.

Hildibrand being part of Endwalker's relic quests has been known since early August, with the devs even advising to get caught up on that quest chain. They've had months to do so, so this shouldn't be an excuse for an easy first step.

I just think they've ultimately changed their idea on the purpose and 'difficulty' of actually getting a stage 1 relic.

If they're dead set on having the first step of the relic be almost free, why not release this step one patch earlier?
That'd at least mean that people who enjoy working on relic weapons don't have to wait until the 3rd major patch of an expansion before they can finally put some effort in.

It's normal for the first relic stage to be easier. Things start to pick up at second or third stage...

It's only been normal since ShB. First step of the ARR relic required a quest chain that included clearing Titan HM (which wasn't exactly free at the time). HW had the crystal grind (which could only be skipped with a finished Zodiac weapon). SB required getting a high enough elemental level in Anemos to receive Pazuzu feathers.

[MagiusNecros]

They always release a relic step one patch too late to pad out their raids. It's in their "formula".

When ideally with each raid tier they should have a relic step.

It's entirely by design. In the same vein Raid weapons are always better then relic because you would have less incentive to raid if you couldn't get a better weapon.

[Kaurhz]

Hildibrand being part of Endwalker's relic quests has been known since early August, with the devs even advising to get caught up on that quest chain. They've had months to do so, so this shouldn't be an excuse for an easy first step.


If they're dead set on having the first step of the relic be almost free, why not release this step one patch earlier?
That'd at least mean that people who enjoy working on relic weapons don't have to wait until the 3rd major patch of an expansion before they can finally put some effort in.



It's only been normal since ShB. First step of the ARR relic required a quest chain that included clearing Titan HM (which wasn't exactly free at the time). HW had the crystal grind (which could only be skipped with a finished Zodiac weapon). SB required getting a high enough elemental level in Anemos to receive Pazuzu feathers.

Beats me. I've always figured they were better at frontloading the relic anyway since they seemingly have a habit of backloading most of their meaty content.

[Vahlnir]

I am more than fine with that. The relic never was about hard content, there are enough weapons you can get from extremes, savage and ultimate fights.

But... the relic was about grind.

It is simply not okay that I can just buy it with the tomestones I already had with me and be done.

I don't want a free weapon. I want something to do.

Yeah, this is how I feel as well. Relics in ARR and HW gave me a reason to keep logging in every day. I was in the same boat too with the tomestones. Had 1700 on me, and I was done in 5 minutes.