The Lessons Not Learned.

[AmpelioB]

You are quite correct. The more correct term of reference would be "Natsuko-sama".

Honorifics are not just used when talking with someone. They are also used when talking about someone who may not be present with others. The latter is pretty much required, by the way, unless you are referring to a mutual friend.

"Natsuko-san" is fine as well, but I assume the original writer views Natsuko Ishikawa with some level of esteem.

The only thing they appear to get wrong is that "Natsuko" is, indeed, the family name. The Producer's family name is "Naoki".

To the poster of the quote: The discussion is indeed getting pretty thin when all you can complain about is non-Japanese players referring to Japanese people with Japanese honorifics.

have you not realized maybe we just don't respect them?

[VelKallor]

When non-JP people start referring to others, particularly those they've never met and will never in their lives interact with, with the -san suffix, you know the conversation has run its course.

Oh please...

One does not have to be Japanese to know and use the proper etiquette for that persons language. People can learn other languages, or hadnt you heard? I studied basic Japanese, and will continue to do so as I plan on traveling there. It helps to be able to think in that language, and to use the proper etiquette naturally...wouldnt you agree?

I know the proper forms of personal address in Russian, German, Greek, Chinese, Japanese, French, Italian, Latin....your point is?

For example: were I to meet her or another Japanese lady. I would NEVER use - chan as a suffix, because THAT is reserved for family or close friends only.

In order to speak a language to an acceptable standard you need to be able to think in it, because your mode of address is unconscious, a learned behaviour in a specific culture.

By the way, you also notice I refer to her as Ishikawa Natsuko-san, which is AGAIN the proper way to address her and refer to her, family name first, first name last

When in Rome...y'know?

[AwesomeJr44]

By the way, you also notice I refer to her as Ishikawa Natsuko-san, which is AGAIN the proper way to address her and refer to her, family name first, first name last

I can't seem to find where the 'san' part is. The official credits for the game must be referring to her wrong then I suppose. Damn those incorrect credits!!! *shakes fist at the sky*

[VelKallor]

I can't seem to find where the 'san' part is. The official credits for the game must be referring to her wrong then I suppose. Damn those incorrect credits!!! *shakes fist at the sky*

Yeah , see, theres you, and then theres my native speaking Japanese teacher at a famous Australian university.

Which one do YOU think i should listen to?

And then theres this this:

https://90dayjapanese.com/japanese-name/

Also, as you may already know, the surname always precedes the given name when addressing someone’s name in Japanese.

and here

Japanese naming conventions arrange names as follows: [FAMILY NAME] [given name]. For example, YAMAMOTO Yukio (male) and SATŌ Akari (female).
The family name (known as ‘myouji’ or ‘ue no namae’) is inherited patrilineally from one’s father and shared with other siblings. It always comes before the given name.
The given name (known as ‘shita no namae’) is chosen at birth as the individual’s personal identifier.

Why would you use Japanese name order in a different language? All it does is create confusion about which is her first name/surname imo.

Because its the correct usage?

[TheMightyMollusk]

I can't seem to find where the 'san' part is. The official credits for the game must be referring to her wrong then I suppose. Damn those incorrect credits!!! *shakes fist at the sky*

When you look at credits for something in English, do you look for Mr. or Mrs. or Ms. in front of every name? Because that's what -san is.

[Shurrikhan]

By the way, you also notice I refer to her as Ishikawa Natsuko-san, which is AGAIN the proper way to address her and refer to her, family name first, first name last[/I]

The order is context-dependent. Just as you could rightly be called スミス・ジャン (Smith John) in a Japanese conversation, it is fine to put someone's family name in the position it goes in normally within an English conversation. The purpose is to show which is the family name and which the given name, after all, in the given context -- not necessarily per its source.

What's actually odd is you appending -さん if you haven't met her. If you've never met the person, and especially when speaking also to others who are likewise not their acquaintances, appending -さん is less a matter of being polite than just being a bit weird. It comes off as throwing names around, fakely in this case.

The use and reach of suffixing titles in Japanese does not perfectly mirror those of English titles. In Japanese, さん conveys a degree of at least fairly direct acquaintanceship. That may be inherited in some way (such as by using it when asking after the family member whom you might refer to with that suffix, or by speaking with those who'd all likewise use -さん for the person in question), but you don't just blithely slap -さん onto every name for safe politeness as one might with "Ms." or "Mr."

You would respectfully address her as Natsuko-san, certainly. But, having never actually addressed (nor met) her, you would not typically refer to her as Natsuko-san. You'd do so only after having actually met or conversed with her or while in conversation among her acquaintances who would refer to her likewise.

[Elissar]

Tbh i never expect anything and i'm always satisfied with almost everything that we have.
Yoshi P already told us that is hard to satisfy every need in only one game.

FFXIV still carries some scars from 1.0 in terms of design or preferences, i do not expect any huge changes in the way they plan and do stuff.



I'm more curious about the next FF MMORPG.

For now, pandaemonium, twelves, island sanctuary, criterion/variant dungeons, sightseeing logs and beast tribes is holding my sub. I won't be hyped for the MSQ until 6.5.

[Ayche]

If I wished to show respect, I would call her Ms. Ishikawa
Play it safe with "Ms." since I am not aware of her marital status.

[VelKallor]

If I wished to show respect, I would call her Ms. Ishikawa
Play it safe with "Ms." since I am not aware of her marital status.

In Japanese usage and language custom, you would refer to her or speak to her as Natsuko-san. I am utterly amazed this has to be actually explained to anyone..