The Lessons Not Learned.

[Zanarkand-Ronso]

To be honest?

Doesnt matter what they do, doesnt matter what they put into the game...you lot will ALWAYS find something to complain about.

Its funny..in a sad, tragic kind of way.

Calling me a "white knight" for praising the game, appreciating their hard work and enjoying myself. GOD FORBID I should do that..........

Sheesh.

Yeah, pretty much this.

In other words....no matter what, they cant win.
-They do something: People complain
-They try a new thing: People complain
-They try something completely new taking in feedback: People complain, saying how its locked to 1 system and its slow
-They retry it, taking in feedback allowing more paths to goal: People complain, say they liked old way
-Do something else: People complain it should be like last time

No matter what, they cant win.

So Really, there are always gonna be people that can't be Pleased.
Thats why they should focus on the people that are happy. Which I think is a Bigger Percentage then the people who are unhappy. But of course, always look to improve.
We all agree that OP has often weird and bad takes, but we arnt blind to the fact he and others do say things that are agreeable. There is always ways to improve.

[Carin-Eri]

To be honest?

Doesnt matter what they do, doesnt matter what they put into the game...you lot will ALWAYS find something to complain about.

Its funny..in a sad, tragic kind of way.

Calling me a "white knight" for praising the game, appreciating their hard work and enjoying myself. GOD FORBID I should do that..........

Sheesh.

I tend to agree in principle.

I'm not going to repeat comments I've made in other threads beyond saying that having come from another MMO where the Devs and CM both demonstrated and voiced the fact that player feedback was absolutely irrelevant, and tended to respond to the the select few questions they could be bothered to answer in their Livestreams with either disinterest, mockery or disdain.

I will note, however, that it was a double-edged sword because one of the reasons they cared so little about community feedback was that sufficient numbers of players were buying their gamble/loot boxes and expensive bundles, as well as falling for their FOMO-based nonsense. With that in mind they undoubtedly didn't feel any need to care - because sadly, It doesn't matter how much you hate or bemoan the sleazy marketing tactics of a game like that; if you do so, but give them your money anyway, you are communicating what kind of abuse you are willing to accept in the only language they understand or care about.

For me at least, FFXIV has been a real breath of fresh air in comparison!

[Jojoya]

Keep in mind that if it did reward gear, SE would force a weekly lockout on it.

Do you guys really want another weekly chore that the raiding community is going to decide is mandatory for you to do simply because it has a chance to provide gear?

Are you going to be happy when what drops isn't what you need or you keep losing the rolls on coffers so you fall behind in ilvl compared to those who are getting lucky with their drops/rolls and have a harder time getting invites in PF?

Think carefully about what you really want this content to be for you, and think of the probable consequences if it was turned into a gear piñata.

[ForteNightshade]

Keep in mind that if it did reward gear, SE would force a weekly lockout on it.

Do you guys really want another weekly chore that the raiding community is going to decide is mandatory for you to do simply because it has a chance to provide gear?

Are you going to be happy when what drops isn't what you need or you keep losing the rolls on coffers so you fall behind in ilvl compared to those who are getting lucky with their drops/rolls and have a harder time getting invites in PF?

Think carefully about what you really want this content to be for you, and think of the probable consequences if it was turned into a gear piñata.

All of this is nonsensical fearmongering.

If Criterion dropped raid equivalent gear, it would either have the same exact stats if they didn't want to add new pieces or be an entirely minor DPS increase literally nobody will give a damn about. People do "barse" parties without even full BiS yet. Saying the raid community will make it mandatory you have say, that one extra healer ring from Criterion de to the tome ring being awful is ridiculous. All Criterion would accomplish is giving people more avenues to gear alt jobs.

[Jojoya]

All of this is nonsensical fearmongering.

If Criterion dropped raid equivalent gear, it would either have the same exact stats if they didn't want to add new pieces or be an entirely minor DPS increase literally nobody will give a damn about. People do "barse" parties without even full BiS yet. Saying the raid community will make it mandatory you have say, that one extra healer ring from Criterion de to the tome ring being awful is ridiculous. All Criterion would accomplish is giving people more avenues to gear alt jobs.

Look to WoW as an example of what a raiding community will do when there's content that offers a chance at any sort of power gain - it gets turned into a mandatory commitment.

You're also making an assumption that the gear would have the exact same stats. What if it didn't? What if some jobs ended up with new BiS items coming from Criterion? Players already give a damn about minor DPS increases, that's what the entire BiS chase is about. If they didn't, no one would care about having BiS.

[ForteNightshade]

Look to WoW as an example of what a raiding community will do when there's content that offers a chance at any sort of power gain - it gets turned into a mandatory commitment.

You're also making an assumption that the gear would have the exact same stats. What if it didn't? What if some jobs ended up with new BiS items coming from Criterion? Players already give a damn about minor DPS increases, that's what the entire BiS chase is about. If they didn't, no one would care about having BiS.

Last time I looked... this isn't WoW.

I made no such assumption; specifically saying it would be "either or". Regardless, the raid community, wouldn't care. Not enough to make it mandatory by any stretch of the imagination. If they did, people would lock out players still using one or two crafting pieces or tanks with sub-optimal accessories. Hell, Ultimate weapons are BiS in the odd patches yet nobody cares about locking those in even for speed runs. Speaking on that, non-meta jobs are still represented in parsing. I should know, I play one of them: Warrior.

We have entirely separate BiS options for jobs based around skill speed. 2.46 Dragoon is weaker than 2.5, the preferred set. Both are still listed for player preference.

To be entirely blunt, this screams of someone who has never set foot in the raid community making baseless accusations of them. It's complete nonsense. Will players want to chase new BiS pieces? Some, probably. Will it be made mandatory for PF or even static recruitment? Nope. Unless you're attempting to join a top rank speed kill group, literally no one will a damn if you have the i630 Crit/Pie Ring or the hypothetical new Criterion Crit/Det one.

[SannaR]

Last time I looked... this isn't WoW.

I made no such assumption; specifically saying it would be "either or". Regardless, the raid community, wouldn't care. Not enough to make it mandatory by any stretch of the imagination. If they did, people would lock out players still using one or two crafting pieces or tanks with sub-optimal accessories. Hell, Ultimate weapons are BiS in the odd patches yet nobody cares about locking those in even for speed runs. Speaking on that, non-meta jobs are still represented in parsing. I should know, I play one of them: Warrior.

We have entirely separate BiS options for jobs based around skill speed. 2.46 Dragoon is weaker than 2.5, the preferred set. Both are still listed for player preference.

To be entirely blunt, this screams of someone who has never set foot in the raid community making baseless accusations of them. It's complete nonsense. Will players want to chase new BiS pieces? Some, probably. Will it be made mandatory for PF or even static recruitment? Nope. Unless you're attempting to join a top rank speed kill group, literally no one will a damn if you have the i630 Crit/Pie Ring or the hypothetical new Criterion Crit/Det one.

Jojoya isn't completely wrong though. There has been many a time where the raid community has been in that mind set. Remember when the PF wouldn't allow certain jobs in parties? There are plenty of times when the NA community at least gets so tied to the Meta or a raid strat that no matter how many times someone trues to show them there's a better way or to say eff the meta they won't listen. I don't know about you and yes this doesn't have anything to do with raiding but you remember how sacrifice pulls used to be the thing running dungeons? Skip Soar or disband didn't become a meme on day one.

[Imoye]

1500 astronomy is an absolute joke. There's no challenge and no sense of accomplishment at all.

[VelKallor]

1500 astronomy is an absolute joke. There's no challenge and no sense of accomplishment at all.

As has been said: this is stage ONE.

The pain comes iater.

[Alleo]

1500 astronomy is an absolute joke. There's no challenge and no sense of accomplishment at all.

Yeah because doing mindnumbing numbers of Fates in Eureka and Bozja was so much better. The relic weapon was always about grinding stuff and in the last few expansions the first step was always easy. Heck last time you even got your first relic for free. This is just how it works. Instead of needing skill you will put in time. It was never meant to be challenging.

And not everyone here has the 1.500 on hand. I did not. I still need to grind at least 800 stones before I can get my first relic. Why? Because I have every single job at lvl 90 and when I gather enough stones I turn them in for gear for them. So now I do need to do more content to get it.

On top of that you have those who simply want more than one relic. I am quite sure those also still have grind quite a bit before they reach their goal.