Variant & Criterion Dungeons

[Iscah]

I've been keeping notes on what I chose to do each run. It's a puzzle to be solved, and they make the process clear to you at the start: make your choices in the dungeon, read the journal for clues. If the journal talks about specific processes or such, it's probably a clue.

Also, if you're running these things weeks apart then you're probably not that invested in solving the puzzle in the first place.

[VictorSpoils]

i625 gear would've been nice. It'd be roughly equivalent to the i495 Bozja gear. Maybe even i615/i625/i635 for each mode.

Actually haven't seen any job changes in 20ish variant runs, and other than one three-man run they were all solo/light. Kind of foregone features unlike Bozja/Eureka.

Especially in ASSS.

[Alleo]

I've been keeping notes on what I chose to do each run. It's a puzzle to be solved, and they make the process clear to you at the start: make your choices in the dungeon, read the journal for clues. If the journal talks about specific processes or such, it's probably a clue.

Also, if you're running these things weeks apart then you're probably not that invested in solving the puzzle in the first place.

I loved being able to solve most puzzles with the notes. Yet I am a bit sad that some are bascially still just trial and error. Wished that if we get future content like that its purely just through information we get. Because I honestly would not have figured out note 4 and 5. (They are not difficult themselves, just not really clear since you bascially have to play around with the things in the dungeons)

[Xerkrosis]

[...]
its sad to know that we exchanged bozja/eureka content for this..
[...]

Bozja came with 5.35. This equals more to 5.25's ShB relic story with Memoria Misera. For 6.3(5?) another deep dungeon was in planning as well as the 5th ultimate content.

[einschwartz]

Okay, it's the weekends so I finally have the time to do this at my leisure.

Variant Dungeon
It's fantastic. Very enjoyable to do solo or duo with a friend for the purpose of exploring and puzzle solving.
While I appreciate having different routes depending on your choices, and needing to collect all the notes from them, I find that a couple of notes are not as meaningful as the others. One example for this is Route 8 and Route 9 (one drops boulder, one makes wind).

I know it changes the boss mechanic, but I do wish it doesn't count as a separate note. There is no immediate difference for them as we still arrive at the same location regardless. Route 1 and Route 2 does this right. It leads you to the same path but, one requires you to sidetrack for a bit to discover an extra door.
That's my only very minor gripe. Other than that, I had a great time.

Criterion Dungeon
I went in with my FC. None of us do Savage so we were on average i610. The trash mob caught us by surprise -- they have more HP, they hit harder, plus they do their signature aoe which we generally can recall from their overworld counterpart. I like it tbh. Nothing too hard. We just can't happily spam AoE like in normal dungeon.

The first boss was rough especially since we went in blind. We tried for about 6 pulls. Managed to learn up to the ice stack before deciding this is way too hard and not worth our time. At least not for doing it blind.

I personally would like to give it another shot with a proper group (and maybe with better ilvl in the months to come). But I do agree that the mechanics and the pacing feels like a savage fight. The boss fight is a HUGE jump from Variant to Criterion. Trash mob feels just right -- well, the 1st set that is. I don't know how it is past Silkie.

[Reinha]

After giving criterion more tries, I feel that the first two bosses are extreme difficulty and the last boss is closer to savage. Of course they each only last like 5 minutes so they are much faster to learn. I'm enjoying the challenge, and since we only got one hard dungeon I think it's ok that these take some time to prog.

Still, I wish there was a dungeon mode between variant and criterion that gave a generous amount of tomestones, loot and rare drops. I would love an alternative to baby mode expert roulette.

[Vahlnir]

i625 gear would've been nice. It'd be roughly equivalent to the i495 Bozja gear. Maybe even i615/i625/i635 for each mode.

Actually haven't seen any job changes in 20ish variant runs, and other than one three-man run they were all solo/light. Kind of foregone features unlike Bozja/Eureka.

415 would have been okay, in my opinion, to pair with the newly introduced relics.

[AmpelioB]

415 would have been okay, in my opinion, to pair with the newly introduced relics.

you have to take in account that the content is as hard as extreme AND Savage, so somewhere between 615-630 but then since we have manderville weapons easily obtainable (if you have hildibrand done) and barbarricia at the same ilvl I think 625 would be the best option for upgraded gear on Savage duty and the normal Criterion not having weapons

[Iscah]

All done now on variant routes, and didn't get any duplicates.

I have a question about a route though.

After solving the Malachite Portico puzzle, there is an optional thing to interact with in the next room, but it only became interactable on one of the two runs I took through that route.

Is it connected to whether or not you interact with the culvert switch early in the level, or does the optional door not get triggered if you go to the exit first?

Also I had a blind run at the Criterion version and it definitely feels like a step too far up from the basic version. I think we could have had a medium difficulty level with a few more attacks and faster-paced versions of the variant mechanics. Interestingly I seem to have seen more mechanics than some of the other players in the group, whether it's because I was running solo or I'm just a slower DPS than some. (Someone else said that the normal version only uses the blue tail, and they didn't recognise the green.)

Anyway, I might watch a guide and take another shot at it, but it's only at an "if I remember and get around to it" level of urgency.

[Absimiliard]

Also I had a blind run at the Criterion version and it definitely feels like a step too far up from the basic version. I think we could have had a medium difficulty level with a few more attacks and faster-paced versions of the variant mechanics. Interestingly I seem to have seen more mechanics than some of the other players in the group, whether it's because I was running solo or I'm just a slower DPS than some. (Someone else said that the normal version only uses the blue tail, and they didn't recognise the green.)

Have to agree here. The jump from Variant to Criterion is nuts. While Criterion is meant to be challenging, it's not something the average player is going to be able to complete until they outgear it. Their aim, I believe, was for Criterion to be Extreme-adjacent, but it is in fact much closer to Savage difficulty. Criterion Savage, on the other hand, isn't a big step up from Criterion at all.

I believe Criterion should've utilized the same mechanics as Variant, but probably without markers and with higher numbers across the board. Maybe have the attacks come out a bit faster. You know, roughly on par with an EX trial. Something the average player can do with a bit of practice. Criterion Savage should've been what Criterion is currently but maybe with the numbers tuned a bit higher, or maybe not.

On the subject of rewards: As the content poses zero challenge, Variant level rewards don't need to be anything other than cosmetics. Criterion as it is presently really ought to be giving us upgrade material for the tomestone gear at the very least, with Criterion Savage providing the same and perhaps some special emotes, minions, mounts, whatever on top of that. As for why I feel upgrade materials shouldn't be limited to Criterion Savage? Like I said before, it's not that different from Criterion. Besides, having two opportunities to get an upgrade material (one from Criterion, one from Criterion Savage) would maintain whatever advantage SE feels non-casuals should have over casuals while simultaneously giving casuals a worthwhile reward. This would also get around the issue of SE needing to design (or more likely reuse) additional equipment.