Variant & Criterion Dungeons

[Kaliesto]

Hello I was directed here from my topic on the subject, so I'll transfer over what I wrote:

I think its kind of cool this idea was something I posted before awhile back minus some differences, and while I definitely like the direction this is going in, but there is a few gripes I have mainly with the normal difficulty version.

The Cons:

1) I think the Monsters should be randomized, and slightly more tougher and their mechanics should be on the same speed like the harder version. Not only will this get players a bit more trained, but helps them out in the harder content.

2) While I appreciate the slightly different mechanics with the 1st boss, but I think the 1st boss in each pathway should had been different rather than the same boss. The fun factor gets hurt in this regard.

3) Since you can change jobs during the dungeon run I think this was a missed opportunity to let different jobs have the ability to open different pathways or find interesting things, it would have added a bit more replay and fun.

4) More Reward variety, I've seen the complaints on the forums here about it.

The Pros:

1) The puzzles are decent enough, Its kind of hard to do puzzles these days because of the internet but still I like it was still tried.

2) The Branching pathways to fill up that book was a nice way to get players to try different routes. There has been a lot of arguments regarding how if this was done in normal dungeons people would try to take the path of least resistance, but the rewards here negates that and everything is on even ground. I wanted something like this for a very long time, and happy Yoshida & Friends made the attempt here. I would love this actually start being done for normal dungeons in general!

I would say they should done more branching paths during the first part of the dungeon besides the last half just to make more interesting, but this is a good start.


That is all I can think of atm..I kind of wanted to share this with the JPN forum, but I'm none too confident using DeepL.

[AstreMcClain]

I will admit whole heartedly that I am not clever enough to remember something on another route (I Spent all day hugging walls looking for some kind of lever to stores on the map after killing all the enemies there and to get to the shaded area on route 1). Eventually I grew tired after 3 Attempts (Two were purposely saying Lightning at the door) and went to route 1 with a friend who was having the same issue as I was on route three. Neither of us knew what to do there because nothing stood out. After He logged off, I looked up a guide (Just for one and two, I didn't scroll past that) cause it was very frustrating cause we ran back and forth several times on route 1 after clearing the entire path.

It wasn't until I made a PF to get some help with three that I was told that the hints were in the pages you get after clearing a route, I remained skeptical and pressed onward, they then told me that the codes for one and two were in another route.

Needless to say I don't do the "This quest won't be logged in journal..." quests for the same reason I find these hard: Even when I notice something and write it down I don't seem to fully understand what it is the game is trying to tell me in that moment so me remembering something from another route is extremely hard for me to even accomplish.

And while I know that I could always join a party and get help, like many other people have seen and stated in this thread, they don't know the hints and wind up screwing it up, or as the same friend had told me, they always bicker about which way to go.

Eventually I got into the stores mentioned earlier after I thought about it at the same time as the person helping me mention it but yeah, I don't like this if I have to remember other routes while looking for something I wouldn't recognize blatantly.

The Bosses are also Damage Sponges solo but that's an okay price to pay for being Solo. Other than that, I like the concept and everything.

No, I have not done every route at the time of writing this for obvious reasons as I like to clear things like this route by route considering I spent a combine two hours looking for a hidden switch for the door to the position.

Despite what you might think, no this is not a troll reply I actually spent most of my day hugging walls until I doordashed and the did the PF stuff when I got back.

[AmpelioB]

I will admit whole heartedly that I am not clever enough to remember something on another route (I Spent all day hugging walls looking for some kind of lever to stores on the map after killing all the enemies there and to get to the shaded area on route 1). Eventually I grew tired after 3 Attempts (Two were purposely saying Lightning at the door) and went to route 1 with a friend who was having the same issue as I was on route three. Neither of us knew what to do there because nothing stood out. After He logged off, I looked up a guide (Just for one and two, I didn't scroll past that) cause it was very frustrating cause we ran back and forth several times on route 1 after clearing the entire path.

It wasn't until I made a PF to get some help with three that I was told that the hints were in the pages you get after clearing a route, I remained skeptical and pressed onward, they then told me that the codes for one and two were in another route.

Needless to say I don't do the "This quest won't be logged in journal..." quests for the same reason I find these hard: Even when I notice something and write it down I don't seem to fully understand what it is the game is trying to tell me in that moment so me remembering something from another route is extremely hard for me to even accomplish.

And while I know that I could always join a party and get help, like many other people have seen and stated in this thread, they don't know the hints and wind up screwing it up, or as the same friend had told me, they always bicker about which way to go.

Eventually I got into the stores mentioned earlier after I thought about it at the same time as the person helping me mention it but yeah, I don't like this if I have to remember other routes while looking for something I wouldn't recognize blatantly.

The Bosses are also Damage Sponges solo but that's an okay price to pay for being Solo. Other than that, I like the concept and everything.

No, I have not done every route at the time of writing this for obvious reasons as I like to clear things like this route by route considering I spent a combine two hours looking for a hidden switch for the door to the position.

Despite what you might think, no this is not a troll reply I actually spent most of my day hugging walls until I doordashed and the did the PF stuff when I got back.

i'm gonna be honest, I don't think you ever played a puzzle game (i'm not judging you, that's mostly the impression I getting) because that's really common in puzzle games, you are thinking as each route as a separate thing and not as a whole setup, it's not the kind of thing that you just ram down. also is new content don't be sad just because you didn't clear it all day one. it's not an competition.

[hobostew]

stuff

I think where it stands to be a problem is that in say a puzzle platformer you might run into a puzzle you can't solve because you need something from a different area the general idea is communicated in a much clearer fashion where as here you would expect the puzzle solves to have some in dungeon/visual clues but instead they are tucked away in little notes in a journal. Even worse someone might not have the time or desire to run this more than once or twice any given day and the expectation that you remember what you've tried or haven't over the course of weeks is kind of ridiculous. You also don't know if you got the solve right until you finish clearing the entire thing so you're set to potentially be running the same instance over and over hoping you worked out the correct answer.

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

[Deveryn]

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

If people don't have time for that, this game isn't for them. All we have is time and there are groups that have already done it without looking at a guide.

[AmpelioB]

I think where it stands to be a problem is that in say a puzzle platformer you might run into a puzzle you can't solve because you need something from a different area the general idea is communicated in a much clearer fashion where as here you would expect the puzzle solves to have some in dungeon/visual clues but instead they are tucked away in little notes in a journal. Even worse someone might not have the time or desire to run this more than once or twice any given day and the expectation that you remember what you've tried or haven't over the course of weeks is kind of ridiculous. You also don't know if you got the solve right until you finish clearing the entire thing so you're set to potentially be running the same instance over and over hoping you worked out the correct answer.

I imagine most people will just look up a guide cause at the end of the day ain't nobody got time for that.

The content only got out this week jeez. Here, get some help.

[millktea]

Once again, someone rushes through new content as fast as possible then complains there's nothing to do.

It's going to last me weeks because it's not something I expect to do daily, and certainly not in one sitting. Then it may take me even longer depending on what rewards I decide I want from it.


That question applies to any content.

Is someone only doing it for the rewards, or are they doing it because they find it fun?

I repeat content because I have fun doing it. The rewards mean little in the long run because they only have value within the game itself. When I'm not playing the game, having the reward means nothing.

This sounds more like your lazy and disinterested.

It doesn't take long to clear most content in this game, so its funny how you downplay someone when this is MOST people.

It takes months for new things to come out, and since the game is repetitive, ofc they are going to do the new thing because ITS NEW.

Variant is extremely easy and that also made it easy to get fast guides. The difference between variant and criterion is too much though. I'm not saying I dislike hard content, I do it, but with C, C, and S, yeah I think C is too much more than V for little rewards.

People complain about the rewards. Yes, many do content just for fun but the rewards are a passive means to make the content last and the rewards aren't good enough for that. Should people get gear? No. Savage exists and nothing provides catch up until later. But materia? Something that's rather easy to get in the game? Yeah, no.

But no, I agree it won't last. I'm not going to lie and say its great enough for that. It's easy to farm tomes, but that's it. Played this game long enough to already know. Like, you can't really even get into potd 1-50! Why? No reason to go back lmao.

[Lustre]

SE demonstrating yet again they have no idea how to create midcore content, it goes from "braindead easy" to "savage equivalent" when you go from variant to criterion. Then to add salt to the wound, the main reward from it you can just buy on the market board and save yourself the trouble and effort. 33 runs for a crap mount no thanks.

And if you do savage? Your choice of materia X (easier to get elsewhere) an earring nobody will see or care about or a household furnishing that nobody will use.The thought that this is what they believe players want from a m+ equivalent system is laughable. No gearing rewards (like it matters anyway outside of w1 savage and ultimates), no alternate progression routes, sub-par rewards you can purchase on the market board instead of actually interacting with the content lmao. I guess they couldnt make the rewards good because then the great community would have a meltdown

That being said I did enjoy variant dungeons, for the two evenings they entertained me for.

[caffe_macchiato]

SE demonstrating yet again they have no idea how to create midcore content

Because the FFXIV playerbase consists of two types: those who like reading the story and those who like hardcore raiding. There’s an entire multi-billion dollar gaming industry outside of FFXIV that caters to mid-core gamers. Unless you want to kill the rat or read Nanamo story time, FFXIV doesn’t really have a purpose on the gaming market. I wish they’d just take the sub off or put out a book and call it a day.

[Blood_Blossoms]

Did it solo as mech pretty easy just keep cure ticking and Rampart up had no problems with it.
Also did it as 3-man DPs and also just tank and healer and also as 3 healers and 4 DPs runs.
Find pretty fast doing it as a Tank and healer over 2 DPS but 4 DPS is pretty fast over all its very balanced on DPS and speed of clears between any comp.

Rewords are meh was hoping for more long-term progression system myself.
Puzzles where lack Luster not really puzzles it was finding the hints was hoping for more mine small game style things mazes, find an object linked to a riddle. maybe a Presher plate puzzle. that also links into hint system. than just switches or kill adds in set orders.
Mechanic change switches that just changed mechanics, but not final outcome story also annoyed me this mostly with first boss only just think was added for just needed something to fill gap its nice but not important at all.