Getting your health chunked / killed while Guard is up is the worst feeling.

[Deceptus]

Yes I understand the netcode is sh!t, yes I understand that ping and latency exist, yes I understand certain actions go through Guard but from an optics perspective seeing

+Guard

followed by

12500!
8000!
Dead

Is simply extremely demoralizing.

[Ransu]

It's indeed frustrating. You have to basically predict a guard instead of using it reactionary because of the horrible net code.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

While I doubt they can inprove the netcode and thus improve Guard, I believe what they could and should do is three things:

1.) Improve map design to offer more LOS objects:
- Palaistra middle
- Cloud 9 map overhaul
*will go into detail later this evening, stay tuned

2.) Re-introduction of Fetter Ward for everyone
- would require some job tuning depending on the stats of FW

3.) Retuning specific CC abilities
- Miracle of Nature should not ignore/pierce CC immunity
- Reduce BRD Silence and MCH stun to 2s, recompensate elsewhere if needed

The reason I mention these is that Guard intends to mitigate lethal damage (less problematic if you had more physical cover) and bait out overbearing crowd control abilities (like Fetter Ward did).

This would provide players more agency, resulting in less moments where they felt completely helpless.

[Deceptus]

While I doubt they can inprove the netcode and thus improve Guard, I believe what they could and should do is three things:

1.) Improve map design to offer more LOS objects:
- Palaistra middle
- Cloud 9 map overhaul
*will go into detail later this evening, stay tuned

2.) Re-introduction of Fetter Ward for everyone
- would require some job tuning depending on the stats of FW

3.) Retuning specific CC abilities
- Miracle of Nature should not ignore/pierce CC immunity
- Reduce BRD Silence and MCH stun to 2s, recompensate elsewhere if needed

The reason I mention these is that Guard intends to mitigate lethal damage (less problematic if you had more physical cover) and bait out overbearing crowd control abilities (like Fetter Ward did).

This would provide players more agency, resulting in less moments where they felt completely helpless.

Was Purify every fixed? I knew before the Resillience buff wasn't working but in an ideal world it would remove ALL CC from your character and provide immunity for 5s.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Was Purify every fixed? I knew before the Resillience buff wasn't working but in an ideal world it would remove ALL CC from your character and provide immunity for 5s.

Wasn't. CC can still get past Resilience if you hit in the frame between recovery and buff application. Resilience works, but it is frame / tick dependent - that's how it has been since 6.1, at least from my experience.

A band-aid fix to this issue would be to make Resilience also immediately cure any CC currently applied as long as Resilience is up, as a catching mechanic. This wouldn't even be too difficult to code, though I suppose Q&A and testing might take a while to prevent additional bugs piling up here (it also is much less of an issue in the lands of the morning sun where everyone has basically 5 ping soooo... us silly Gaijins gotta struggle).

[Llynethil]

- Reduce BRD Silence and MCH stun to 2s, recompensate elsewhere if needed
.

Why?

MCH already needs to have both air anchor up and have reassamble up to be able to stun, it's fine as it is.

And there's literally nothing wrong with bard silence right now, they need to remove healspamming first before even thinking about touching bard silence, especially since it doesn't even prevent you from running out of LoS like a stun.

A monk being able to chain cc you is 100x worse then a bard silence or machinist air anchor stun.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Why?

MCH already needs to have both air anchor up and have reassamble up to be able to stun, it's fine as it is.

And there's literally nothing wrong with bard silence right now, they need to remove healspamming first before even thinking about touching bard silence, especially since it doesn't even prevent you from running out of LoS like a stun.

A monk being able to chain cc you is 100x worse then a bard silence or machinist air anchor stun.

First, it is important to establish that we speak of jobs with a 3-second hard CC (stun, silence) that are not gated by Limit Break. Those are the following:

• PLD -> Shield Bash [stun] (ability, recast: 15s)
• BRD -> Silent Nocturne [silence] (ability, recast: 20s)
• MCH -> Analysis: Air Anchor [stun] (weaponskill, once per 40s CD Cycle)

The reason I am not including Monk or Dancer in this list is because their 3s+ duration CC is 1.) tied to their Limit Break, meaning frequency is once a minute or less and 2.) force the two jobs to engage and animation lock them. They are powerful, but not without danger.

The reason why I am not against Shield Bash (and still on the fence about Air Anchor) is because Paladin does not have any disengage tools nor does it fight from range. You have to actively engage and put yourself in immediate distance of the enemy.

Machinist's Air Anchor I can possibly excuse since it is a GCD-based weaponskill, meaning alignment can be weird. That said, 3 seconds of Stun is still incredibly powerful, especially on a 12000 dmg ranged skill.

Before the fast-paced PvP overhaul we only had 2s duration CCs, when the TTK (time to kill) was longer without coordinated bursts, Healers had spamable heals and most jobs had defensives to peel for self or each other. And we still managed to burn tanks in under a second from full health despite having less tools.

So in a 5v5 with very limited external heals and highly potent damaging abilities, we also have jobs with CCs longer than 2 seconds and no CC resistence outside of Resilience + Guard (+ Meikyo Shisui/Warden's Paean). Heads are quite literally rolling and people scream over the lack of agency due to excessive CC.

Silent Nocturne contains essentially every issue in a single package.

• Ability oGCD
• short recast (20s)
• 25y for safe distance
• enables Pitch Perfect - a slightly stronger "Powerful Shot" with instant cast (free movement) which also shortens the recast of Empyreal Arrow(s) just like PowShot.

It is essentially risk-free, high value both offensively + defensively and locks someone out of Sprint, Guard, Recuperate and other things without Purify. So you can just run away around a corner, no?

1.) BRD also gets 3s Bind on Repelling Shot (their backstep). Can be combined or alternated depending on your current situation
2.) Palaistra Middle + Cloud Nine in general have absolutely rancid LOS options. Engagement on either of these maps in open spaces is already difficult, but with a Bard (and White Mage) around, it becomes basically suicide. This leads to stagnant tip-toe wars until someone can get punished rather than active PvP combat.

BRD has solid damage, solid defensive utility with Warden's, buffs damage of nearby teammates by relevant amounts and has god-tier CC abilities. The only "drawback" is that their Limit Break isn't as epic, though bonus dmg + faster LB gen depending on when used isn't half bad.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

BRD would literally be trash without their silence...They are barely viable as it is and they absolutely do not have solid damage as they are entirely reliant on the team. They have an "ok" burst phase that's only viable BECAUSE of silent. Locking you out of being able to use CD's and forcing you to burn purify is the entire point of CC. Learn how to pvp.

They need their silence for this, it's their ace in the hold to lock down a target if you take that away you'd have to massively increase all their damage to compensate and then you just get yet another boring dps focused ranged job.
Not to mention, every single melee job and caster job has higher winrates than every ranged job right now, so there's 0 reason to nerf ranged jobs as is.

This was never a discussion about BRD needing to lose their Silence altogether, only a streamlining of CC abilities to have 2 second durations in a fast-paced PvP system. I also said, if you would actually read for once, that a nerf to any 3 second CC should be recompensated elsewhere to keep the power level sameish if not improved, as cited on my first post:

3.) Retuning specific CC abilities
[...]
- Reduce BRD Silence and MCH stun to 2s, recompensate elsewhere if needed
[...]
This would provide players more agency, resulting in less moments where they felt completely helpless.

So to sum it up for you before you misunderstand again:

• Suggested nerf is NOT removing the Silence, only shortening it due to the short recast.
• Recompensation elsewhere should absolutely happen, be it firepower or defensive utility. Or a better LB.

Also Ransu, you can stuff your "learn how to PvP".

[Ransu]

Purify problems follow the same problems as guard. Its a netcode issue.

[Elfidan]

Animation over gameplay has been an issue in everything since 6.2 dropped.