The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[ty_taurus]

I also want to bring up something in regards to older Final Fantasy games. We've brought up the White Mage of old and how it differs and compares to the White Mage of FFXIV, but there's actually a massive component that differs between these examples that we've neglected in this references: the player.

If you play FFIV, it's true that Rosa's offensive options are quite limited, having access to Aim and Holy and that's about it. But you as the player are not controlling only Rosa. You're also controlling Cecil, Kain, Rydia, and Edge. Your gameplay while playing FFIV is not defined by Rosa, but by your access to the entire team, so it makes sense to have characters be more binary in their toolkits, because you're also inputting commands from the other 4 characters.

But in FFXIV, the character you control is the only character you control. So while the labelled White Mage of older games may have been limited offensively, you as the player were not, unless you played FFI, FFIII, or FFV with a party of only White Mages. Meanwhile here, your gameplay is entirely dictated by your job. And even if we want to bring up that same criticism for FFXI which did have very limited offensive options as well, FFXI featured the sub job system, and you know what seems to be listed as one of if not the best sub jobs for White Mage? Black Mage. It gave White Mage greater offensive capabilities, more debuffs, better MP management, and spikes for passive damage.

[Shurrikhan]

I also want to bring up something in regards to older Final Fantasy games. We've brought up the White Mage of old and how it differs and compares to the White Mage of FFXIV, but there's actually a massive component that differs between these examples that we've neglected in this references: the player.

If you play FFIV, it's true that Rosa's offensive options are quite limited, having access to Aim and Holy and that's about it. But you as the player are not controlling only Rosa. You're also controlling Cecil, Kain, Rydia, and Edge. Your gameplay while playing FFIV is not defined by Rosa, but by your access to the entire team, so it makes sense to have characters be more binary in their toolkits, because you're also inputting commands from the other 4 characters.

But in FFXIV, the character you control is the only character you control. So while the labelled White Mage of older games may have been limited offensively, you as the player were not, unless you played FFI, FFIII, or FFV with a party of only White Mages. Meanwhile here, your gameplay is entirely dictated by your job. And even if we want to bring up that same criticism for FFXI which did have very limited offensive options as well, FFXI featured the sub job system, and you know what seems to be listed as one of if not the best sub jobs for White Mage? Black Mage. It gave White Mage greater offensive capabilities, more debuffs, better MP management, and spikes for passive damage.

Might it then be more appropriate to think of WHM in a player-equals-whole-party game as... what it affords the party/team/composition (as compared to a given alternative character for the slot)? And should we consider there as being potential additions or reductions to that WHM kit or its contextual affordances based on what they wanted to convey about the character?

[ForsakenRoe]

But in FFXIV, the character you control is the only character you control. So while the labelled White Mage of older games may have been limited offensively, you as the player were not, unless you played FFI, FFIII, or FFV with a party of only White Mages. Meanwhile here, your gameplay is entirely dictated by your job. And even if we want to bring up that same criticism for FFXI which did have very limited offensive options as well, FFXI featured the sub job system, and you know what seems to be listed as one of if not the best sub jobs for White Mage? Black Mage. It gave White Mage greater offensive capabilities, more debuffs, better MP management, and spikes for passive damage.

And in FF9 Garnet and Eiko both have access to Summons, and in FF10 Yuna had access to Summons (and if you played on Expert Sphere Grid, anyone could be the 'WHM'. Wakka WHM lets go), and in FF5 you could choose anyone to be a WHM but also give them any other job's actions once you'd levelled it, to complement what the WHM lacks, list probably goes on but those were the extra that immediately came to mind

[ty_taurus]

And in FF9 Garnet and Eiko both have access to Summons, and in FF10 Yuna had access to Summons (and if you played on Expert Sphere Grid, anyone could be the 'WHM'. Wakka WHM lets go), and in FF5 you could choose anyone to be a WHM but also give them any other job's actions once you'd levelled it, to complement what the WHM lacks, list probably goes on but those were the extra that immediately came to mind

in FFX, you also can swap people in and out of combat, so even though your active party size is 3, you really have 7 characters to work wtih.

XII is the really weird case. You have an active party of 3 and a total cast of 6. You can swap them in and out of battle like in X, but only if they're not being targeted. By late in the game, usually that's not happening until they're KOed. Then you have the original in which everyone is a blank slate and can learn everything. After that came the Zodiac Job System in which you'd get a max of 6 of the 12 available jobs and never be allowed to switch. If you picked White Mage in that version, you were stuck with that, and White Mage was not great in that version because it couldn't really do much, at least until you could unlock great swords and start actually hitting things which you could do if you took a specific Esper I believe. And after that, the remaster allowed you to pick up a second board after defeating Belias, so White Mage becomes a job you can match with other jobs, where it's commonly viewed as best paired with Machinist for the added time magic and guns.

[ForsakenRoe]

in FFX, you also can swap people in and out of combat, so even though your active party size is 3, you really have 7 characters to work wtih.

Actually I just had a thought, that is true for most of the game but a very specific point, it's not: The Via Purifico. Imagine having to solo through that dungeon-prison-thing, as Yuna, but you didn't have summons, ugh. Yeh you meet up with allies at certain times in there, but when you start out you're on your own, and have at least 3 random encounters to go through solo