The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Shurrikhan]

To the thematic kit argument, though - keep in mind this is always true. Priests in WoW can heal or DPS, but they can't tank. Maybe you love Priests, but if you want a Priest-tank, you have to play a Protection Paladin and just kind of headcanon it.

Right, but that's because the thematic space of divine magics was already split into two classes -- one Plate, on Cloth. By Warcraft lore, a Paladin is literally a Priest who has joined a knight order and/or has received special training for the front lines.

And we're not talking the most basic of basic roles here; we're talking sub-roles. Those instead compose constraints by which, say, an Elementalist should be forbidden access to barriers or a Galvanic access to HoTs not necessarily because either is unfitting for either theoretical job, but simply because every healer/support/medic has to be either of Type A or Type B.

You can't really lean into different directions. You're either playing right or you're playing wrong. RDM's can't play as pure casters, they HAVE to use their melee combo.

That's a consequence of the game leaning so deep into role templates, though, and the kits offering no choice, not anything to do with its engine or even necessarily the game's broader combat philosophy ("WASD-DDR atop Other-Buttons-DDR").

Remember, it wasn't always that way. 2.0 WAR almost nothing like 2.0 PLD despite both being capable enough tanks (WAR favorable for adds and dungeoning, PLD for tanking bigger hits). Before that, even PGL and LNC could act as tanks.

Take, for instance, a SMN by that older design. Instead of simply deciding on an order for their three basic summons between alternating Bahamut and Phoenix phases, you'd have fewer, if any, pure damage summons and you'd use them as best you could leverage those additional features/differences, be they healing, mit, CC, party resource gen, or whatever else. At which point, yeah, a SMN could even off-tank or snap-tank via Titan and Alexander or off-heal or snap-heal via Phoenix or Slyph, etc. But more importantly to discussion of "sub-roles", they could preempt mechanics in order to better suit whatever's at their core -- rooting themselves in place under Titan or Slyph to avoid uptime loss to knockbacks, charging to target for additional uptime under Ifrit -- a slight excess of capacity overall kept in check because it can't all be used at once nor be used without foresight.

Now, in terms of 'sub-roles', would that make them a "mobile caster" because they could sprout wings and cast while moving while in Garuda's form? A "turret-caster" because they could start nuking via up to a few 3.5s casts? A "speed-caster" because they could use reduced GCDs, potentially helpful for constantly resetting stagger on a lower-HP but threatening enemy? Yes and no; mostly, they'd just... be "a Summoner". That means leveraging summons, which in turn means a ton of options none of which individually have quite the same depth ceilings of other jobs but collectively lead to a pretty gigabrain job just because that's what makes the most sense given the button-efficiency of having multiple gameplay-shifting keys (those summons). In the end, for the purposes of purely a "Magical DPS," that means having a solid but vulnerable core with lots of ways to capitalize on and support it that in turn could overflow into party support. And, to me, that'd be pretty great.

Did you play SCH in ARR?

If so: Did you like it?

I played every job in ARR, yeah, between main and this char. Could have been better, of course, but I liked it well enough. I definitely micro-managed my pet more than was necessary (causing it to stutter step, dodge every mechanic, etc.), though, so that may have been a bit part of that attraction. Solo healing a minimum-ilvl Titan Extreme on it was, yeah, pretty darn fun. I can't say I much care for SCH anymore though.

[Renathras]

Right, but that's because the thematic space of divine magics was already split into two classes -- one Plate, on Cloth. By Warcraft lore, a Paladin is literally a Priest who has joined a knight order and/or has received special training for the front lines.

I get that is a unique example, and yes, that's the lore for it, I concur. But it's not the only case. Again, Warlocks can't tank. Paladins don't have a ranged caster spec. Elemental Shamans didn't originally have barrier healing, for example. SCH's don't heal by doing damage. Warlocks and Mages can't tank, despite both having three specs with all three being dedicated to their respective takes on the caster role. We tend to see this frequently in other games a lot, too. For example, BC to...Legion? Or even still? Holy Paladins (and I think Disc Priests) were tank healers. They could do other things, but their kit didn't work well for it, so that's what they did. Resto Druids and Holy Priests (the closest to a jack-of-all-trades healer) were always focused on raid healing. So where Shamans, but theirs was a bit weird and more party focused. The Devs tried to change this and just made things worse most of the time.

That's a consequence of the game leaning so deep into role templates,

I'm not sure the cause, but more just noting the what is.

Remember, it wasn't always that way. 2.0 WAR almost nothing like 2.0 PLD despite both being capable enough tanks (WAR favorable for adds and dungeoning, PLD for tanking bigger hits). Before that, even PGL and LNC could act as tanks.

I was referring to healers, but we did have most parties bringing one of each tank to take advantage of their individual pros and cons.

The thing is, DPS, already have sub-roles (and are the only role that really does)

I played every job in ARR, yeah, between main and this char. Could have been better, of course, but I liked it well enough. I definitely micro-managed my pet more than was necessary (causing it to stutter step, dodge every mechanic, etc.), though, so that may have been a bit part of that attraction. Solo healing a minimum-ilvl Titan Extreme on it was, yeah, pretty darn fun. I can't say I much care for SCH anymore though.

I guess what I meant by the asking is that you would probably like (or at least prefer to present) that kind of healing gameplay? Is that an accurate assessment?