The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Shurrikhan]

Shurrikhan - Since this discussion is happening in other places (here and on ffxivdiscussion) related to another Job; extra niche buttons aren't a problem. PLD has Shield Bash, which actually has a use in Deep Dungeons. If you were asking for extra buttons that people legitimately don't have to interact with if they don't want to, this would be a different discussion.

I'm not asking for something that most people won't even put on their bars, no. My point was, again, you wouldn't need it to do even the vast majority of Savage, just like you could technically drop most of your oGCDs and still get through it, just with lower damage.

If you're not expected to eek out every possible Glare you can for a given Savage run now (historically, anything tuned that strictly has been explicitly unintended and gets nerfed), neither would you be expected to interact with that added skill ceiling. I think Taurus and Forsaken, too, have pointed out that they want those optimizations to have diminishing returns — such that complete mastery vs. near-complete mastery would be obvious between two people fighting for a top parse, but a degree of difference irrelevant to your average player.


Though, among suggestions for utility, Shield Bash in ARR and pre-nerfs Clemency¹ might be close to some of what I'm looking for there — situationally useful tools that people often forget about but nonetheless have some pretty decent effect.

¹ Clemency went from having mechanics that actually allowed it to be useful... to having no such encounter interactions and greatly devalued spot-healing, and from itself doing ~200% of a Cure II's potency affectable by Requiescat for +50% healing... to ~125% potency and using up Req stacks solely to avoid the sub-GCD cast time (no healing bonus). It was situationally and featurally useful; it's now just a wash.

If you want to have any shot at such changes, you have to be willing to yield and compromise and embrace solutions like mine as ways to get at least something you want.

Okay, again...

Towns A and B are broke. They've recently been giving the opportunity, no string attached, to not be.

Town A: We actually like living simply.
Town B: We'd rather not have to live simply.

The obvious overlap: Have money and still live simply. You... can still do that.

"Ye Great Compromiser": Ahh, well then keep one town in poverty. Then there will be choice!

......

This is the way FFXIV is. You guys aren't getting what you want.

Viewpoint A wants to see each healer job improved according to a few criteria (especially, more engaging downtime and for healing tools not to make each other so redundant while still maintaining about as low a skill floor -- ideally with further value moved towards more integral and iconic features unique to each job).

Viewpoint B wants to see all but a quarter of healer jobs improved (though perhaps by different criteria; I do not know).

You're really going to tell me that the feasibility of any of this revolves around limiting this wave of changes to just 75% of the roster? As if they couldn't predict the massive backlash that'd have from whichever job is left out?

[Renathras]

Towns A and B are broke. They've recently been giving the opportunity, no string attached, to not be.

Town A and Town B are not broke.

They also have been given no opportunity to change. Town A simply thinks there's an implied opportunity where none has been made. BUT, Towns A and B are both rural towns.

Town A wants to be more cosmopolitan and Town B wants to be remain as rural as it is today.

You want to force them to both be more cosmopolitan, regardless of the will of the local people, while I suggest allowing each to be what they want at the same time.

Viewpoint...

Viewpoint A wants to see each healer made more complex because that is what they like.

Viewpoint B would like to see each healer stay simple because that is what they like, but as a compromise, they suggest giving Viewpoint A 3/4ths of them so Viewpoint A will be happy.

Viewpoint A insists they will not be happy unless they get them all, and Viewpoint B can either accepted it and change or can go pound sand, and either way, Viewpoint A will not be happy unless it gets everything it wants and Viewpoint B gets nothing it wants.

.

Maybe if you actually had accurate allegories, it might help your understanding of the situation.

[ASkellington]

Viewpoint A wants to see each healer made more complex because that is what they like.

Viewpoint B would like to see each healer stay simple because that is what they like, but as a compromise, they suggest giving Viewpoint A 3/4ths of them so Viewpoint A will be happy.

Viewpoint A insists they will not be happy unless they get them all, and Viewpoint B can either accepted it and change or can go pound sand, and either way, Viewpoint A will not be happy unless it gets everything it wants and Viewpoint B gets nothing it wants.

Say SE does as you say and changes only SGE, AST and SCH to have 2 more dps buttons. WHMs who want higher depth will complain and rightfully so. For simple fact if:

AST who has more to juggle can also have 2 extra dps options then WHM who does not can as well because it is simple.

On top of SGE who is the direct shield comparison to WHM can also have 2 extra dps buttons despite also being as simple as WHM.

Once again - all tanks have a 1-2-3 combo on top of what makes them different: their extra dps. Just because WAR is more simple than GNB doesn't mean WAR doesn't have it. If tank can have that, healers can have a similar build.

To make a comparison, you're literally saying that since WAR is to be the simple tank if it had lost Fell Cleave in Shb, and all the other tanks had extra burst, it shouldn't get it because it's to be the only tank with a 1-2-3 combo. No tank would agree to that. They'd want WAR to get it.

And YES WHM lost Areo 3 and since it is a separate DoT on its own timer and CD you would be expected to use it and Dia in savage. You're arguing against getting it back and another button all because you believe people shouldn't have to adapt their class and stay with all that they knew for an expansion and never grow.

They're gonna relearn how to play their class in 7.0 anyway. I don't see the problem.

Especially considering that both old and new players adapted to SB -> Shb changes of AST and Shb -> EW's changes the latter of which I did.