The Problem with Healer Feedback, and requested changes

[Shurrikhan]

And still clear Savage?

Frankly, if a person can't be bothered to hit more than 1 buttons for the majority of their actions, nor meaningfully engage with more than it and "hit the oGCDs on CD, give or take the few seconds to the mechanical cue", they're not likely to be the sort to enjoy Savage for anything other than the credit of having cleared (been carried) through or the gear that's useless elsewhere for anything but epeen.

Nor do they need to be able to have the same performance as everyone else when doing only that.

Those who don't enjoy the combat anyways aren't a group we should be catering the design of skill ceilings towards, especially given how likely it is to simply turn everything else into simply a worse choice (far more work and less reliability for the same best-case results simply because the one job's floor is tuned to equal anyone else's ceiling).

Again, this is an argument I've never made.

But you have. Repeatedly.

You have repeatedly asked for one job to be left as is -- to specifically not benefit from improvements possible for the role.

I'd be sacrificing SGE, AST, and SGE - just so you can have more fun

So what this really comes down to, is what, that you want to be able to do as much the ceiling of any deep kit with a bare minimum of effort, and so WHM has to be held back to a bare minimum just because you would otherwise feel bad that you could have done more?

Well, at least I'm glad we've dispensed with this hypothetical "majority" of players who are "entirely satisfied" with healers as is and can see what's what now.

[Renathras]

I don't even know where to start with this...

Frankly, if a person can't be bothered to hit more than 5 buttons, they're not likely to be the sort to enjoy Savage for anything other than the credit of having cleared (been carried) through or the gear that's useless elsewhere for anything but epeen.

What is it with all of you and arguments of the form "The only reason someone would <think thing I don't want> is if they <insult>"?

When I have friends running Savage say "Ren, we need a healer!", I go because I enjoy the company of friends and want to help them out. There's no "credit" on my mind, or even gear, honestly (though my OCD does like being able to get a second ring that isn't 10 ilevels behind anything else). Also, Savage gear isn't useless anywhere that isn't synced. What you mean is isn't NECESSARY, not "that's useless".

Nor do they need to be able to have the same performance as everyone else when doing only that.

Nor do they need not to. What's your point?

Those who don't enjoy the combat anyways

They enjoy the combat as it is right now.

That would imply they are the people we should be catering the design towards. Which is literally what the game is doing right now.

But you have. Repeatedly.

You're going to have to quote the specific argument - I said this to you several times because you claimed several times I made arguments I have not made.

You have repeatedly asked for one job to be left as is

...I have.

-- to specifically not benefit from improvements possible for the role.

Find one quote from me in this entire thread where I said "I want one job to be unchanged so it doesn't benefit from improvements".

Find me making that argument one time. That specific argument.

Remember, to me, your proposed change is a downgrade, not an upgrade. It's an dis-provement, not an improvement. Since I see what you're asking for as making the Jobs worse and less fun, how could I be arguing that not changing a Job is so it doesn't benefit from an improvement when I don't see what you're proposing as an improvement?

So what this really comes down to, is...

No. Sometimes I like to play different things, and from time to time that means I like to play DPS - in which case I get on RDM or SMN, btw - and sometimes I Tank - I often enjoy that more, actually, than playing a red DPS Job.

There's no point where I want, for me, to have as much of a skill ceiling blahblahblah feel bad blahblahblah.

Now, while we're on the subject of "made up highly insulting personal attacks on others instead of understanding other players like different things than we do", I could just as easily argue that you want this change because you are selfish, want only your playstyle to be allowed, want only you and those like you to have the clears and epeen gear so you can flex around the Limsa Aetherite and look down at people, and you are selfish and lack any sense of compassion for anyone else, such that you don't care about other players, who is harmed by your actions, as long as you've got yours, you're happy and screw everyone else.

...if I was going to make up an insult and slap it all over you instead of just saying "Shurrikhan likes things I don't like, and so I want there to be a Job in the game that plays the way she wants so she can get enjoyment playing the game, too".

I wonder, which of our positions is the more compassionate, caring, friendly, and benevolent here...

Well, at least I'm glad we've dispensed with this hypothetical "majority" of players who are "entirely satisfied" with healers as is and can see what's what now.

Yes, we can:

That you are a selfish and mean person who doesn't care about anyone else as long as you get what you want.

...oh, we weren't playing the hypothetical insult game? You were engaging in a rampant ad homenim fallacy and TOS violation of being disrespectful to other posters because I've beaten your arguments so thoroughly you have no other recourse?

Glad we got that cleared up. Because that's what just happened.

.

Aside: Now I remember why I stopped posting on these forums...

[Shurrikhan]

Remember, to me, your proposed change is a downgrade, not an upgrade. It's an dis-provement, not an improvement.

If just having more available to your kit than just what we have now --which, for the content you're doing, there is no requirement to fully utilize-- is necessarily a downgrade to you worth limiting any number of jobs, then yeah, we're probably never going to see eye to eye.

You can do most floors of Savage with about an eighth of the existing kit. If you want it to stay easy... it would remain so anyways.

What's been most popularly suggested without isolating any particular healer to be capped shorter is simply for healers to get a higher rDPS ceiling through optimizing a deeper downtime kit and for less of the HPS to fall to rigidly timed oGCD (which would actually make the floor lower, since it wouldn't be so reliant on a bloated assemblage of oGCDs).

You want there to remain 1 Glare Mage; you'd still have 4 jobs, though, for which you could put just as little thought into downtime and still do fine even in almost every Savage fight.

And if you were expecting to be able to swap to a job you're completely unfamiliar with and do Ultimate, let alone near-optimally... why should that be a thing at all? Why does that need to be pandered at the expense of balance among other jobs?