Why do Raid Buffs even exist?

[UkcsAlias]

You are arguing semantics. All I'm saying is that at the moment all battles (at least at ex/savage tier) are DESIGNED to work around the 2 min burst mechanic they introduced to almost all classes, and probably will slowly introduce to the rest in the coming patches.

Then use the proper terms when stating things and especialy dont state false things.

A dev can force the meta. And players can discover the meta. There is nothing wrong in using meta on both sides in this. So the argument about semantics is a proper argument because its about correcting mistakes.

[Razhius]

Then use the proper terms when stating things and especialy dont state false things.

A dev can force the meta. And players can discover the meta. There is nothing wrong in using meta on both sides in this. So the argument about semantics is a proper argument because its about correcting mistakes.

I stated nothing false. You also admitted it by admitting you are arguing semantics. No mistakes needed correcting. Yes the devs can "Force a Meta", if that's how you wish to semantically define dev design choice.

I think its you that needs some mistakes corrected.

[Reimmi]

Honestly i'd take removing raid buffs in return for us getting unique class identities back
Seperate everyone from the raid buff window, give everyone unique gimmicks instead.
Not to say all of them should be removed mind, bard and dancer should keep them as their identity, but it isn't even their identity atm when everyone has buffs.

It'd be nice to not have everyone homogenized into the same 2 minute rotation pretty much. More stuff like reaper with the enshroud gauge letting them do burst at will with their gauge, stuff like that

[Mithron]

Not to say all of them should be removed mind, bard and dancer should keep them as their identity, but it isn't even their identity atm when everyone has buffs.

Personally, I think the "raid buffer" jobs are DRG, NIN, BRD, DNC and RDM. I wouldn't mind seeing SMN fit this category with "BRD-like auras" from every summon they have like Phoenix does, too. All the other DPS should be selfish DPS, IMO.

[Windwalker]

Buffs should be restricted to ranged support jobs. They have low damage already, would make sense to have a support job on raid teams, right now nobody wants them, since all jobs have buffs.

[Fendred]

When the meta changes, its great for the new jobs that are released, but it almost always makes the old jobs harder to play since they weren't designed for it.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Hm? I'm not exactly sure what this means. Do you mean that raid buffs add complexity or force cooperativeness between party members? I don't really want to put words in your mouth, so I won't keep on guessing.

Apologies for the delay - I forgot about this thread!

I meant that raid buffs make it such that the total DPS output of 8 players in a raid group is quite a bit greater than just the sum of each individual player's DPS - I think that this is a good feature for MMOs to have. I think that single-target buffs like DRG eye are also good, but should be in addition to raid buffs rather than replacing them.

[CelestiCer]

A lot of discussion has been going around about both job design and job balance. Much of the discussion around job design has been veering toward the subject of the focus on 2 minute burst windows, while job balance discussions focus on the recent controversy of P8S.

This all stems from how Square designed FFXIV. Everything feels Streamlined. Think of the following in mind when it comes to balancing Jobs/Classes in other games...

• Plethora of Skill trees
• Multiple possible Rotations by design
• Being able to fulfill a role outside of their intended role
• Various viable unique Off-Meta Builds by design
• Job synergy with all the above mentioned
• Then Fights/Raids/PvP that accommodates all the above

Not saying Square should do any of it nor couldn't do any of it? They just clearly aren't aiming to. Instead it seems their goal is to design FFXIV with as little variations as possible, streamlining everything. Including taking away skills what made most jobs feel unique and sticking to the 2 minute burst window meta.

Raid-buffs keeps burst phases at least interesting, requiring some teamwork to squeeze out more damage from each-other. It's not perfect? but it keeps it more interesting then without it.

I am all for it though if it makes players happy? more different ways to play a Job, and/or different burst minutes or back to 1 minute? sure, it's gone require a lot of changes? and they could probably do it as well. But... just like the loss of my beloved skills, I wouldn't hold your breath with Square's design philosophy obviously leaning towards " Simplifying and Streamlining everything for least amount of Job variables the Dev's need to balance. "

[Mithron]

This all stems from how Square designed FFXIV. Everything feels Streamlined. Think of the following in mind when it comes to balancing Jobs/Classes in other games...

• Plethora of Skill trees
• Multiple possible Rotations by design
• Being able to fulfill a role outside of their intended role
• Various viable unique Off-Meta Builds by design
• Job synergy with all the above mentioned
• Then Fights/Raids/PvP that accommodates all the above

Not saying Square should do any of it nor couldn't do any of it? They just clearly aren't aiming to. Instead it seems their goal is to design FFXIV with as little variations as possible, streamlining everything. Including taking away skills what made most jobs feel unique and sticking to the 2 minute burst window meta.

Raid-buffs keeps burst phases at least interesting, requiring some teamwork to squeeze out more damage from each-other. It's not perfect? but it keeps it more interesting then without it.

I mean ARR-SHB definitely had varied and interesting jobs without a 2 minute burst window meta and no skill trees etc.

[CelestiCer]

I mean ARR-SHB definitely had varied and interesting jobs without a 2 minute burst window meta and no skill trees etc.

Yup. And it didn't require elaborate skill trees to achieve it no. They shown they can do it. Just saying they won't. Hence I wrote the last bit you didn't quote I'll, put it there as well.

...I am all for it though if it makes players happy? more different ways to play a Job, and/or different burst minutes or back to 1 minute? sure, it's gone require a lot of changes? and they could probably do it as well. But... just like the loss of my beloved skills, I wouldn't hold your breath with Square's design philosophy obviously leaning towards " Simplifying and Streamlining everything for least amount of Job variables the Dev's need to balance. "

They clearly are aiming to streamline everything. If they want to steer away from 2 minute meta now? they'd have to do a lot of changes. It's not that they can't, they shown that they can. They just aren't showing any signs of wanting to is all I am saying. But if it makes players happy? I am all for it.