Please make Verraise accessible at level 12

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

[...]Stripping RDM of Vercure/Verraise would be equivalent of stripping PLD of all melee sword skills and turning them into Holy Spirit only[...]

Probably a bit uneven in comparison, because I do not think that Cure/Raise is as deeply rooted into a Red Mage as is general swordsmanship of a Knight / Paladin. I'd say sooner "a part of Knight" but certainly not a hefty bit of the core. RDM restorative magic is certainly part of it, but not as core as the general idea of being a Caster/Melee hybrid.

That said, I have a proposal.

Verraise and Resurrection, both imo can go. I want them both to shoot up in damage numbers so the devs can stop worrying how much they need to tax the damage (which they absolutely do).

In turn, the following:

1.) In preperation to point #2 and I bold this on purpose so you don't cringe before reading it properly - a "spell" that does basically "nothing", like Form Shift for Monk, other than prepping Dualcast. This is necessary to allow for the downtime optimisation to prep Dualcast as it is currently possible in downtime, while allowing for the changes on #2 to not impact this.

2.) Change Vercure from "Spell" to "Ability", changing the recast to 15s on three (3) charges, allowing you to weave Vercure in between. Adjust potency as seen fit.
3.) Replace Verraise with Vermedica (Ability) on a 60s recast. Idea is essentially an oGCD Medica II but with potency value within the range of Summon Phoenix's Everlasting Flight.

The interesting part of #2 and #3 is that they play hand-in-hand with "Magick Barrier", which happens to enhance healing recovery to those affected, especially the Vermedica. Vermedica also being more on demand than Everlasting Flight plays in similar leagues to Dancer with Curing Waltz.

Now, obviously RDM has a lot to weave, so it may be a bit of a challenge to get it all under the barrel, but so does a job like Dark Knight during large burst windows or Gunbreaker.

Why am I suggesting this? Because I fully understand the niche people want RDM to see in, and imo this would be the most sensible way for Vercure (and other things) to exist in Red Mage without either being too impactful or basically useless.

[MagiusNecros]

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

Good writeup. Historically Red Mage has only been able to cast mid tier magic. Holy and Flare gets an ok because the endgame Swords that are exclusive to RDM/RDW can be used to cast high level spells through the use of the Defender, Lightbringer, Deathbringer, Ragnarok. Most of these equippable by the Red Wizard but the spells could be used by anyone by using the weapon as item magic in battle.

So you actually have the spells Flare, Holy, Blink, Scourge, Death at your disposal.

As you say the Red Mage buffs the Party with Temper and Blink and then spams Holy.

Thus far RDM is a very true depiction of the job in the franchise even in XIV.

On the subject of Sage the Sage in this game has nothing to do with the Sage of FF3 which had mastery over all White and Black Magic. Which in XIV RDM kinda already does having access to Flare and Holy.

In XIV it's a shield based healer job with a heavy Gundam aesthetic and I think is a more original job for XIV.

Nothing wrong with original jobs. We will probably need more of them later in the games life.

[SaberMaxwell]

Again it really isn't a good argument you just come off as saying play healer for any support option, when healer currently isn't even designed well, you don't realise that people do want to play that more support orientated "DPS" You're just closing off any discussion or arguments by saying that.

Hybrids *can* work they're just a mess to balance and I do see where you're coming from at least from a balanced view point it would be very messy and un ideal to balance., it is boring job design and I'll stand by this to have no sort of general "support" options, but its likely the most balance if you gave all dps no support options and the same damage.

Also Its a issue with BLM not really being a job that's good in progression so the current balance of raise is a mess.

Edited:

I edited that comment fyi, Don't want it to make you look like you were misquoting me.

I can agree with that to be fair, the ability still makes sense from job Idenity

Its a sound argument, the current state of healers is irrelevant to the logic. That logic being: If you want to play a job primarily for its support and healer fantasy, then you should play the role designated for that job. If one's primary fantasy and reason for playing RDM is to raise people, one should instead play a job focused on healing and support. There's no two ways about it; to argue otherwise is to say "Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like we're healers anyway."

Here's the other trick though: the people who play RDM like that? Probably wouldn't even know healers suck. The greater likelihood is they're not confident (assuming the best) or wanting the fantasy without the responsibility (assuming the worst). On a healer filling the healer fantasy they may even have fun because they wouldn't be the ones spamming glare, they'd be living their dreams drowning the tank in cure 1.

Also here's a fun tidbit: BLM is a good prog job. Absent raise, it'd even be better than RDM. It's more immediately mobile than RDM, hits WAY outside RDM's weight class so enrage won't be a big concern, doesn't need to play fast and loose with a pretend
fifth melee spot like RDM, and even has a personal mitigation so it doesn't need babysitting from the healers. Raise is the ONLY benefit RDM brings to prog because outside of that? Barrier is okay at best.

[Rithy255]

Its a sound argument, the current state of healers is irrelevant to the logic. That logic being: If you want to play a job primarily for its support and healer fantasy, then you should play the role designated for that job. If one's primary fantasy and reason for playing RDM is to raise people, one should instead play a job focused on healing and support. There's no two ways about it; to argue otherwise is to say "Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like we're healers anyway."

Here's the other trick though: the people who play RDM like that? Probably wouldn't even know healers suck. The greater likelihood is they're not confident (assuming the best) or wanting the fantasy without the responsibility (assuming the worst). On a healer filling the healer fantasy they may even have fun because they wouldn't be the ones spamming glare, they'd be living their dreams drowning the tank in cure 1.

Also here's a fun tidbit: BLM is a good prog job. Absent raise, it'd even be better than RDM. It's more immediately mobile than RDM, hits WAY outside RDM's weight class so enrage won't be a big concern, doesn't need to play fast and loose with a pretend
fifth melee spot like RDM, and even has a personal mitigation so it doesn't need babysitting from the healers. Raise is the ONLY benefit RDM brings to prog because outside of that? Barrier is okay at best.

"Just go play healer lol" has no substance, again we have to take into account current healer design is nothing like current DPS design, you cannot have a fun or varied rotation on a job like RDM While playing healer, having some support options on a DPS role is different from being a "pure support" some people like some responsibility, some people like a lot more of the responsibility of support, Just play healer isn't a really good argument, now that you're presenting your points outside of that your view point makes more sense and doesn't come across as dismissive.

I'm sure some people have tried out healer and disliked it but enjoyed Red mage having a backup raise, it's not even about a pure healer fantasy, it's about having support options such as magick barrier and raise to help, obviously I don't always think peoples fantasy should play apart in job balance. The job shouldn't be designed to be the "fill in for a bad healer" but it's nice it has those options, a clear way of changing this is making veraise and summoner raise be unuseable in Ext, Savage ect. So they can focus on it's job damage and balacing out the casters without any tax.

Blm was good this tier because of the insane check, if anything SMN has been the best prog job because of massive mobility, BLM and rdm do struggle with mobility, you might be right that RDM struggles more, you might have a point there.

[FireMage]

and white mage is still a healer, RDM has always had healing spells so having white magic such as raise, vercure makes sense...

This argument is really unproductive so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm shutting down your BS that RDM is a support hybrid. It isn't, it's a DPS, that's a fact. You are dismissed

[SaberMaxwell]

"Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like they are healer and whine when the people playing the role for what it is would rather not get hampered by healer mechanics" is aan argument thats less than substantive, its actively harmful to an entire role shackled by this one actions very existence in its current state.

You act like "but healers suck lol" is such a killer to "just play healer lol." Its not. The fact of the matter is, a big reason healers are in the state they're in is BECAUSE so much of their role has been exported to other roles. Tanks can practically heal themselves, every melee has self heal and mit (drg excluded), every role has mitigation, the whole party has so many tools to mitigate and recover from damage that healers already oGCD bloated healing kits are strained that much less leaving them with that much more downtime. If anything, "but healers suck lol" is even MORE reason to pull away from RDM's identity as rez mage and giving that to a healer.

Summoner dominating a tier is nothing new. They're usually the best caster (hot take: yes even for prog, and its been that way since the buffs in ShB). The point of my statement though, and you seem to understand, BLMs only real disadvantage in prog at this point in EW is the lack of raise.

[Rithy255]

"Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like they are healer and whine when the people playing the role for what it is would rather not get hampered by healer mechanics" is aan argument thats less than substantive, its actively harmful to an entire role shackled by this one actions very existence in its current state.

You act like "but healers suck lol" is such a killer to "just play healer lol." Its not. The fact of the matter is, a big reason healers are in the state they're in is BECAUSE so much of their role has been exported to other roles. Tanks can practically heal themselves, every melee has self heal and mit (drg excluded), every role has mitigation, the whole party has so many tools to mitigate and recover from damage that healers already oGCD bloated healing kits are strained that much less leaving them with that much more downtime. If anything, "but healers suck lol" is even MORE reason to pull away from RDM's identity as rez mage and giving that to a healer.

Summoner dominating a tier is nothing new. They're usually the best caster (hot take: yes even for prog, and its been that way since the buffs in ShB). The point of my statement though, and you seem to understand, BLMs only real disadvantage in prog at this point in EW is the lack of raise.

Well most people who want to play rdm like I said dont even want to play a pure healer role, they want to play a DPS role with support.

It's that simple, Playing healer doesn't fill any DPS fantasy while playing RDM fills that dps with the side of support fantasy.

"Just play healer" isn't a good argument, because of that and also because healers are just boring at least for most people who want to play a job with a rotation

[FireMage]

And specifically the White Magic that RDM is known for in the franchise are Cure spells. It's White Mage who exclusively use their offensive spell known as "Dia" (HARM in NES). Red Wizards can even learn Life, but only White Mages/Wizards can learn Heal (AoE cures). Red Mages can also learn Poisona, Blindna and Protect. By late game, Red Wizards are known for using Temper and Haste to buff the other physical hitters (Knights, Masters and Ninja), then using it on them selves for supplemental physical attacks (Thus Embolden). They can do decent AoE damage with tier 2 Black Magic spells on trash mobs, and if the White Mage/Wizard runs out of MP or dies, the Red Mage is there to backup with additional MP pool to draw from.

In FF3, Red Mages could use Aero spells like White Mages, but you didn't typically cast it much outside specific scenarios because you really wanted to conserve their MP for Cure and support spells instead.

You are dismissed

I love how you posted a bunch of irrelevant garbage like it matters. Job identity is not specifics in FF, it is generalities. I love watching fools foolishly flail about in their foolishness

[FireMage]

I just wanted to highlight and emphasize this classic example of FireMage being FireMage. Good stuff, always disappoints.

Yes, I'm right, as usual. You shouldn't be surprised at this point

Stripping RDM of Vercure/Verraise would be equivalent of stripping PLD of all melee sword skills and turning them into Holy Spirit only, or removing BLM's 3 elemental spell rotation and only casing Fire magic. It would remove the core identity of their classic FF history. I play RDM because I like Vercure and Verraise being there on

This whole point basically shows you are either ignorant or a malicious liar. Vercure and Verraise if ANYTHING put RDM out of balance with its balance throughout the franchise by allowing too much White Mage stuff in it, which is alarming as it's a DPS

[Ransu]

Yes, I'm right, as usual. You shouldn't be surprised at this point

You have never been right on these forums lol. Go back to gamefaqs and troll over there.