Please make Verraise accessible at level 12

[SaberMaxwell]

Raise makes sense from a job identity standpoint, "rez dispenser" isn't it's idenity fully but it makes sense why the "half white mage" would have a battle raise :^)

Doesn't make sense why they're better at it than WHM :^)

[Rithy255]

"Just play a healer" is a big debunk against people whose whole fantasy with Red Mage *is* that healer fantasy of raising people, yes. You can say "healers are boring" all you want but thats no reason to go to another role...hoping to retain the healer fantasy.

Hybrids. Don't. Work. In trinity based tag target MMOs. They don't work in XIV. "Identity" this and "but its boring" that, sure fine we already know you and I don't find fun in the same way; you prefer "bring the job, not the player" type balancing because that way you can have fun bringing jobs with different tools to handle situations, I prefer "bring the player not the job" because it sucks to have people having to ping pong jobs across their own role just to keep up at best, and people's favourite jobs just getting dumped at worst. That's a bridge we'll never quite gap.

Again it really isn't a good argument you just come off as saying play healer for any support option, when healer currently isn't even designed well, you don't realise that people do want to play that more support orientated "DPS" You're just closing off any discussion or arguments by saying that.

Hybrids *can* work they're just a mess to balance and I do see where you're coming from at least from a balanced view point it would be very messy and un ideal to balance., it is boring job design and I'll stand by this to have no sort of general "support" options, but its likely the most balance if you gave all dps no support options and the same damage.

Also Its a issue with BLM not really being a job that's good in progression so the current balance of raise is a mess.

Edited:

Doesn't make sense why they're better at it than WHM :^)

I edited that comment fyi, Don't want it to make you look like you were misquoting me, I wanted to update it a bit because I don't feel like it was the best way to get my point across.

I can agree with that to be fair, the ability still makes sense from job Idenity

[FireMage]

White Mana = Stone/areo spells and some other stuff like verholy

So therefore it's already half WHM half BLM. Therefore in its offensive toolkit ALONE it satisfies the qualification of what a RDM is.. Like it's a DPS or something...

[Rithy255]

So therefore it's already half WHM half BLM. Therefore in its offensive toolkit ALONE it satisfies the qualification of what a RDM is.. Like it's a DPS or something...

Nah RDM has always had healer spells, nice got you statement. Again I don't get why we're arguing I don't think raise (in turn you lose some damage) is balanced, like are we seriously going to debate lore reasons why rdm has raise..? I said it makes sense but it doesn't mean we should balance around lore lol.

[FireMage]

Nah RDM has always had healer spells, nice got you statement.

Irrelevant. It still uses White Magic and Black Magic. THAT is Red Mage's identity in the franchise

[Rithy255]

Irrelevant. It still uses White Magic and Black Magic. THAT is Red Mage's identity in the franchise

and white mage is still a healer, RDM has always had healing spells so having white magic such as raise, vercure makes sense...

This argument is really unproductive so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

[SaberMaxwell]

Again it really isn't a good argument you just come off as saying play healer for any support option, when healer currently isn't even designed well, you don't realise that people do want to play that more support orientated "DPS" You're just closing off any discussion or arguments by saying that.

Hybrids *can* work they're just a mess to balance and I do see where you're coming from at least from a balanced view point it would be very messy and un ideal to balance., it is boring job design and I'll stand by this to have no sort of general "support" options, but its likely the most balance if you gave all dps no support options and the same damage.

Also Its a issue with BLM not really being a job that's good in progression so the current balance of raise is a mess.

Edited:

I edited that comment fyi, Don't want it to make you look like you were misquoting me.

I can agree with that to be fair, the ability still makes sense from job Idenity

Its a sound argument, the current state of healers is irrelevant to the logic. That logic being: If you want to play a job primarily for its support and healer fantasy, then you should play the role designated for that job. If one's primary fantasy and reason for playing RDM is to raise people, one should instead play a job focused on healing and support. There's no two ways about it; to argue otherwise is to say "Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like we're healers anyway."

Here's the other trick though: the people who play RDM like that? Probably wouldn't even know healers suck. The greater likelihood is they're not confident (assuming the best) or wanting the fantasy without the responsibility (assuming the worst). On a healer filling the healer fantasy they may even have fun because they wouldn't be the ones spamming glare, they'd be living their dreams drowning the tank in cure 1.

Also here's a fun tidbit: BLM is a good prog job. Absent raise, it'd even be better than RDM. It's more immediately mobile than RDM, hits WAY outside RDM's weight class so enrage won't be a big concern, doesn't need to play fast and loose with a pretend
fifth melee spot like RDM, and even has a personal mitigation so it doesn't need babysitting from the healers. Raise is the ONLY benefit RDM brings to prog because outside of that? Barrier is okay at best.

[FireMage]

and white mage is still a healer, RDM has always had healing spells so having white magic such as raise, vercure makes sense...

This argument is really unproductive so I'm not going to bother with it anymore.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm shutting down your BS that RDM is a support hybrid. It isn't, it's a DPS, that's a fact. You are dismissed

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

Nah RDM has always had healer spells, nice got you statement. Again I don't get why we're arguing I don't think raise (in turn you lose some damage) is balanced, like are we seriously going to debate lore reasons why rdm has raise..? I said it makes sense but it doesn't mean we should balance around lore lol.

For one, many classic FF jobs don't retain all details of what they are. Black Mage doesn't retain abusing elemental weaknesses or consistency in their spell naming (higher number = stronger etc), White Mage essentially lost Protect and Shell, Monk until recently didnt have FFVI Masterful Blitz, etc. FF Games change how jobs operate on a per case basis. Ultima for example is White Magic in FFII, Blue Mage spell learning has varied between literally every iteration of it.

The only truths are that RDM was usually a caster who wielded both black and white magic, thelatter not always being purely restorative let alone supportive in nature and that it had fairly alright melee specialisation.

Tell you what, Im not even against the idea that RDM has supportive abilities. I simply just think Verraise in the case of FFXIV shouldn't be a thing. Recompensation should happen ofc, but Verraise and now Resurrection are clearly massive concern points for devs and players alike.

[Rithy255]

Its a sound argument, the current state of healers is irrelevant to the logic. That logic being: If you want to play a job primarily for its support and healer fantasy, then you should play the role designated for that job. If one's primary fantasy and reason for playing RDM is to raise people, one should instead play a job focused on healing and support. There's no two ways about it; to argue otherwise is to say "Healers suck so we're gonna play other roles like we're healers anyway."

Here's the other trick though: the people who play RDM like that? Probably wouldn't even know healers suck. The greater likelihood is they're not confident (assuming the best) or wanting the fantasy without the responsibility (assuming the worst). On a healer filling the healer fantasy they may even have fun because they wouldn't be the ones spamming glare, they'd be living their dreams drowning the tank in cure 1.

Also here's a fun tidbit: BLM is a good prog job. Absent raise, it'd even be better than RDM. It's more immediately mobile than RDM, hits WAY outside RDM's weight class so enrage won't be a big concern, doesn't need to play fast and loose with a pretend
fifth melee spot like RDM, and even has a personal mitigation so it doesn't need babysitting from the healers. Raise is the ONLY benefit RDM brings to prog because outside of that? Barrier is okay at best.

"Just go play healer lol" has no substance, again we have to take into account current healer design is nothing like current DPS design, you cannot have a fun or varied rotation on a job like RDM While playing healer, having some support options on a DPS role is different from being a "pure support" some people like some responsibility, some people like a lot more of the responsibility of support, Just play healer isn't a really good argument, now that you're presenting your points outside of that your view point makes more sense and doesn't come across as dismissive.

I'm sure some people have tried out healer and disliked it but enjoyed Red mage having a backup raise, it's not even about a pure healer fantasy, it's about having support options such as magick barrier and raise to help, obviously I don't always think peoples fantasy should play apart in job balance. The job shouldn't be designed to be the "fill in for a bad healer" but it's nice it has those options, a clear way of changing this is making veraise and summoner raise be unuseable in Ext, Savage ect. So they can focus on it's job damage and balacing out the casters without any tax.

Blm was good this tier because of the insane check, if anything SMN has been the best prog job because of massive mobility, BLM and rdm do struggle with mobility, you might be right that RDM struggles more, you might have a point there.