Yoshi-P "definitive" answer on third party tools from today's 14 hour stream

[Saranade]

Frequently is an exaggeration as it's usually just the hardcore statics that care about having top parses (teams that want to clear within Day 1 or 2 of a tier dropping for example). I've never experienced a casual or even midcore static ask for logs prior to joining and I've seen my fair share of both over the years.

Also ACT does not equal Cactbot, which is what you're actually referring to.

Oh, my bad its a *different* third party tool that does this. That went over your head.

[AmpelioB]

Oh, my bad its a *different* third party tool that does this. That went over your head.

we are just clearing up your misconceptions, so we know, that you are actually having this discussion on the same level.

[Saranade]

we are just clearing up your misconceptions, so we know, that you are actually having this discussion on the same level.

All you did is clarify which third party tool does what. LOL - I am *so sorry* i dont know the difference between all of your crutches and third party tools and what they do and dont do - Ultimately they give you an edge that players like myself do not have and you just don't want to admit it, meanwhile debasing me and making me look as if im stupid.... for not knowing which cheats do what. just... wow.

[Saraide]

All you did is clarify which third party tool does what. LOL - I am *so sorry* i dont know the difference between all of your crutches and third party tools and what they do and dont do - Ultimately they give you an edge that players like myself do not have and you just don't want to admit it, meanwhile debasing me and making me look as if im stupid.... for not knowing which cheats do what. just... wow.

It's pretty obvious you dont know anything about what you are talking about.

[Saranade]

It's pretty obvious you dont know anything about what you are talking about.

its pretty obvious that reason would be - I don't use third party tools. Le sigh.

[Kazhar]

its pretty obvious that reason would be - I don't use third party tools. Le sigh.

As I said, I know plenty of high end players who neither use nor feel the need to use third party tools.
But as usual, those who complain the loudest about the "rampant usage of TPT" are those who are the least impacted by it.

[SassyAssassin]

Why can’t we all get along..…..

[Midareyukki]

its pretty obvious that reason would be - I don't use third party tools. Le sigh.

I don't either, yet I talk to people who do use it I happen to listen to them talk about their tools and ask them what it's about. I'm on voice chat with some who do use it, and the robot voice comes through their headset. That way I have an idea of what they do and their limits.

Besides, if you don't use third party tools, why are you speaking of them like you know exactly what they do? Do you know for sure where to stand if Cactbot tells you to move? Or does Cactbot only say something vague like "move, stop moving, incoming damage, move left"? Does it read your waymarks and tell you to go there? Does it tell you how far it's okay to go before you clip through someone? Does it tell you which buttons to use? And is it optimized for those weird PF strats like "True North\Boss Relative"?

Because I'm sorry to say this, but the people I'm on voice chat with? They still wiped and had to disband while using it. And I'm sure better pros, people who cleared Ultimates and all that, probably also wiped while having it on. So if I don't use it, and understand that it's probably not the most automated thing out there and you'd still need to learn things and explore the fight, same as everyone else. And I ask, it's Savage. It's a game. No one's doing it for glory and money unless they're a hardcore guy or a streamer. They likely just want the glamour. Why can't they? Yeah, okay, ToS, great, but beyond that, you personally, why does this affect you directly and make you so angry?

And I'm not accusing you or attack you, at least not trying to. I'm really just asking this, half out of curiosity, and half because you seem like you're so against something that ultimately doesn't really affect you. I think most people are only against it because they think it affects them somehow, or they're trying to find a competition where there is none. Or they're being too zealous of Square Enix when the producer himself already said "We're against it, but there are gray areas and we're just not going to start a holy war on this over parses". And pinning the toxicity on parses alone is ignoring human condition. It's ignoring that toxicity will be there even without parses. And it's ignoring all the people who want to improve and use parses to do so, but will no longer be able to, getting frustrated with people in their groups who don't bother doing more than the bare minimum. Toxicity will always be around, as will passsive-aggressiveness. Parsing can cause it, sure, but so can everything else. Hell, just checking the Balance discord, and the GNB BiS has tiers for RACES. So, what, if you're not a Sea Wolf, you're kicked out for being a GNB? If you think that's absurd, then you can also understand that there's a limit to what people can do with parses. And if they cross it, report it. Simple as.

[Sunhwapark]

How are people "judging me on my performance" exactly... without third party tools

If someone has sufficient class-knowledge on single or multiple classes (and can play it/understand how it works) then it's easier for them to identify how the class functions in parties when they are not actively playing that class at the time.

Well, as an example let's say you start a boss fight as a RDM and the countdown hits 0, you decide to go straight in with a melee combo with 0 black/white mana and then hardcast Verthunder III into Scatter, hardcast another Verthunder III but cancel it 4 times due to having to move for a mechanic, You go in for another full melee combo and then hit Embolden. - a RDM main is probably silently judging you somewhere, unless that is a new iteration of freestyle samurai tier rotation that we've never heard of. Classes that are tied to the '2min' burst windows are also a bit easier to watch in this manner too, if they keep using their burst phase buffs 4GCDS+ late every time - then people may pick up on that and wonder what the reason behind that is.

In a raid setting at least, for non DPS Classes it is easier for the co-tank or co-healer to notice one-another's playstyle due to the 'collaborative' nature of those role it's benficial to have partial knowledge of what your partner does so that you can work together better. Although you do get a huge spotlight over your head when people mess up stuff like tank-swaps & heal/mitigation checks, and then the finger pointing game begins.


You don't need third party tools to see someone's performance, you need only observe. (and also have the relevant knowledge of said class)

[MintnHoney]

making me look as if im stupid....

Don't worry, that ball was in your court all along. It's aaaaallllll you.
Get it, gurl.