Notos 666

[Saraide]

JWs do not sell anything. All of the publications are free to those interested, no collection plate is ever passed at any meeting, all Bible study courses (whether online or in person) are free, no minister is paid and all work is done by volunteers.

JWs are also not a cult. Anyone’s choice to converse, join, convert, whatever…is completely up to the person. No one is stalked or coerced. It is a personal decision of faith. Additionally, the ‘problems’ are already present and have been since the time of Adam & Eve, so the solutions offered are based solely on Bible principles. Please get your facts straight.

It is kinda funny that when religion is brought up in a derisive way, it is usually JWs who are made fun of or misinformation is spread about. You should truly think about why.

I know this thread has gone way off the rails. Pfft…it began of the rails! But sometimes you get some bits of gold in threads like this. *shrug*

JWs are brought up because they are a cult, you'd do best to look for an exit support organizations and link up with other people who managed to leave. The cult will try to isolate you but you arent alone. The tide is thankfully turning a bit on that cult, although slowly. A swiss court confirmed many condemning practices happening and I hope other countries will also stop looking away.

[NekoHina]

JWs are brought up because they are a cult, you'd do best to look for an exit support organizations and link up with other people who managed to leave. The cult will try to isolate you but you arent alone. The tide is thankfully turning a bit on that cult, although slowly. A swiss court confirmed many condemning practices happening and I hope other countries will also stop looking away.

False. Jehovah’s Witnesses have none of the characteristics of being a cult. There is no ‘charismatic leader’ with no accountability. No one is paid for any work and there is clear openness when it comes to anything pertaining to money. All meetings are open to the public. Nothing secret or hidden. If a person wants to leave the religion, it is very easy for them to do so and no one will bother them again. No ‘exit’ or support organization is needed.

The real reasons why JWs are NOT and never could be truly considered a cult:

What the Evidence Shows
A government official of the city of St. Petersburg, Russia, explained: “Jehovah’s Witnesses were presented to us as some kind of underground sect sitting in the darkness and slaughtering children and killing themselves.” However, the people of Russia have recently become better acquainted with the true nature of the Witnesses. After working with Jehovah’s Witnesses in connection with an international convention, the same official observed: “Now I see normal, smiling people, even better than many people I know. They are peaceful and calm, and they love one another very much.” He added: “I really do not understand why people tell such lies about them.”

Jehovah’s Witnesses do not hold ritualistic meetings, nor is their worship cloaked in secrecy. Non-Witness author Julia Mitchell Corbett notes: “When they meet, usually more than once a week, in Kingdom Halls (their meeting sites are not called churches), most of their time is spent in Bible study and discussion.” Their meeting places are clearly marked with a sign. The meetings are open, and the general public is invited to attend. Unannounced guests are more than welcome.

The “Witnesses have earned the reputation of being honest, courteous, and industrious,” adds Corbett in her book Religion in America. Many who are not Witnesses readily acknowledge that there is nothing freakish or bizarre about Jehovah’s Witnesses. Their conduct does not clash with what is accepted as normal social behavior. The New Encyclopædia Britannica accurately states that the Witnesses “insist upon a high moral code in personal conduct.”

The director of news and special projects for a television station in the United States wrote to Jehovah’s Witnesses in response to a biased report about the Witnesses on the TV news show 60 Minutes. He said: “If more people lived the way your faith does, this nation wouldn’t be in the shape it is in. I am one newsman who knows that your organization is founded on love and a strong faith in the Creator. I want you to know that not all News people are as biased.”

A Well-Known Religion
Is it fair to say that Jehovah’s Witnesses are a small fringe religious group? In a sense, Jehovah’s Witnesses are few in number compared to some religions. However, recall what Jesus said: “Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.”​—Matthew 7:13, 14.

At any rate, the Witnesses are far from being a small fringe cult. In the spring of 2021, more than 20 million people attended the Witnesses’ Memorial of Christ’s death. But more important than their number are their moral character and exemplary behavior, which have brought them worldwide commendation. Undoubtedly this has been a factor in countries that have given them official recognition as a known, bona fide religion. There are over 8 million active members worldwide and the numbers grow daily.

Outstanding is a recent ruling by the European Court of Human Rights. It declared that the Witnesses should enjoy freedom of thought, conscience, and religion and that they have the right to speak about their faith and teach it to others. This would hardly be the case if Jehovah’s Witnesses were known to use deceptive and unethical techniques to recruit members or if they used manipulative methods to control the minds of their followers.

Multitudes around the world are well acquainted with Jehovah’s Witnesses. Of the millions of non-Witnesses who are studying the Bible with the Witnesses or who have studied with them at one time or another, we ask, Were there any attempts to brainwash you? Did the Witnesses employ mind-control techniques on you? “No” would doubtless be your frank response. Obviously, if these methods had been used, there would be an overwhelming number of victims in contradiction to any argument in favor of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

“Absorbed in Humanity”
Cult members often isolate themselves from family, friends, and even society in general. Is that the case with Jehovah’s Witnesses? “I do not belong to Jehovah’s Witnesses,” wrote a newsman in the Czech Republic. Yet he added: “It is obvious that they [Jehovah’s Witnesses] have tremendous moral strength. . . . They recognize governmental authorities but believe that only God’s Kingdom is capable of solving all human problems. But watch it​—they are not fanatics. They are people who are absorbed in humanity.”

And they do not live in communes, isolating themselves from relatives and others. Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that it is their Scriptural responsibility to love and care for their families. They live and work with people of all races and religions. When disasters strike, they are quick to respond with relief supplies and other humanitarian assistance.

More important, they are engaged in an educational program that has no comparison. How many religions have an organized system to pay personal visits to every individual in their community? Jehovah’s Witnesses do this in more than 200 lands and in almost 1000 languages and dialects! All for free and on a volunteer basis. Clearly, Jehovah’s Witnesses are “absorbed in humanity.”

Strict Adherence to the Bible
Admittedly, the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses are different from those provided by the churches. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that Jehovah is the almighty God and that Jesus is his Son, not part of a triune/trinity deity. Their faith is anchored in the belief that God’s Kingdom alone can bring relief to suffering humanity. They warn people of the imminent destruction of this corrupt system of things. They preach about God’s promise of an earthly paradise for obedient mankind. They do not venerate the cross. They do not celebrate Christmas. They believe that the soul is mortal and that there is no hellfire. They will not eat blood, nor will they accept blood transfusions. They abstain from involvement in politics and participation in warfare. Have you ever asked yourself why the teachings of Jehovah’s Witnesses are so different?

A Massachusetts newspaper, the Daily Hampshire Gazette, explains that Jehovah’s Witnesses’ “strict interpretation of the Bible forbids many activities others take for granted . . . , all in an effort to follow the example of first-century Christians and the word of the Bible.” The Encyclopedia of Religion agrees that “all that they believe is based on the Bible. They ‘proof text’ (that is, supply a biblical citation to support) almost every statement of faith, taking for granted the authority of the Bible, which entirely supplants tradition.” The book Religion in America states: “The group has never wavered from its focus on Bible study, and its teachings are supported by an elaborate system of references to scripture.”

Who Is Their Leader?
It is precisely because of this close adherence to Bible teachings that the veneration and idolization of human leaders so characteristic of cults today is not to be found among Jehovah’s Witnesses. They reject the concept of a clergy-laity distinction. The Encyclopedia of Religion aptly states about Jehovah’s Witnesses: “A clergy class and distinctive titles are prohibited.”

They follow Jesus Christ as their Leader and as Head of the Christian congregation. It was Jesus who said: “Do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas all you are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for your Leader is one, the Christ.”​—Matthew 23:8-12.

It is clear that Jehovah’s Witnesses are as far from being a cult as Jesus was from being a glutton and a drunkard when he was on earth. Admittedly, not everyone who was influenced by the false reports about Jesus and his disciples fell into the trap of slandering him. Some may simply have been misinformed. If you have questions about Jehovah’s Witnesses and their beliefs, why not get to know them better? The doors to their Kingdom Halls are wide open to all who seek truth. Or go to the website jw.org from the privacy of your own home and look up the answers to any questions you have about Jehovah’s Witnesses. There you will find the true facts and not rumor and innuendo.

So to conclude:
Jehovah’s Witnesses are most certainly not a cult. That is a falsehood spread by those who are either misinformed or who wish to slander the religion for whatever reason. If it is something that is not for you personally, that is all well and good. I hope you find what is right for you. But please only state true facts when talking about JWs. There is too much wrong information around that makes people have a groundless negative viewpoint. Thanks and take care.

[Saraide]

snip

All of this is meaningless cult dribble. It's been proven that people who want to leave the cult are supposed to be systematically isolated, even parents are instructed to isolate their own kids. Your cartoonish depiction of what you think a cult is is irrelevant. Please stop trying to drag others into this cult if you cant leave yourself.

[Raoabolic]

All of this is meaningless cult dribble. It's been proven that people who want to leave the cult are supposed to be systematically isolated, even parents are instructed to isolate their own kids. Your cartoonish depiction of what you think a cult is is irrelevant. Please stop trying to drag others into this cult if you cant leave yourself.

I think the Binding of Issac was a pretty fun game too!

[Midareyukki]

False. Jehovah’s Witnesses have none of the characteristics of being a cult. There is no ‘charismatic leader’ with no accountability. No one is paid for any work and there is clear openness when it comes to anything pertaining to money. All meetings are open to the public. Nothing secret or hidden. If a person wants to leave the religion, it is very easy for them to do so and no one will bother them again. No ‘exit’ or support organization is needed.
(...)
So to conclude:
Jehovah’s Witnesses are most certainly not a cult. That is a falsehood spread by those who are either misinformed or who wish to slander the religion for whatever reason. If it is something that is not for you personally, that is all well and good. I hope you find what is right for you. But please only state true facts when talking about JWs. There is too much wrong information around that makes people have a groundless negative viewpoint. Thanks and take care.

Yeah, there's a very specific set of rules for something to be considered a cult. And even within that, you still have people who disagree (Branch Davidians :x). Jehova's Witnesses are no different a religion than Mormonism or Catholicism. It is a religion, through and through.

They do have some behaviours which can provide a negative viewpoint though, but "uncomfortable behaviours" don't translate to cult. And this isn't just my experience with Jehova's Witnesses (my best friend in middle school was one and her parents were ridiculously strict), but the experience of many that have come forward about it, including also some core beliefs which get in the way of basic modern survivability and health. The one I tend to see thrown around the most is being against vaccines because they're injecting stuff into their blood. But they aren't the only ones, and a lot of other religions have such experiences as well. My overall outlook on them is the same as my outlook toward all religions: common sense, personal and community wellbeing, and science above superstition and dogma. Because so many people forego those, and they not only harm themselves, they harm their loved ones. Religious Trauma exists, and while, again, it happens in every religion, Jehovah's Witnesses tend to be the ones I see suffering from it the most where I come from. And I do mean "all" religions. Not just those that stem from the Abrahamic ones. So if you're Hindu, Buddhist, Pagan, whatever, I'd say the same to you.

I will say though, that I don't know enough about JH to know whether such behaviours mare a local thing or if they're widespread and a part of the community. I just know what I see and hear from people around me. And I wouldn't tell them to stop their worship, I'd just tell them to really consider their life choices a bit as to not endanger themselves and others. I'm sure their God would understand.

[NekoHina]

*snip* Your cartoonish depiction of what you think a cult is is irrelevant. Please stop trying to drag others into this cult if you cant leave yourself.

My cartoonish depiction? I simply explained the facts why the faith itself cannot meet that the definition of a cult as set forth in secular sources (not my own). Anyone can leave the religion when they want and will not be bothered anymore about it. And I am not trying to drag anyone into anything. I just do not like misinformation spread. There is too much of it already and one of the reasons for the hate.

Yeah, there's a very specific set of rules for something to be considered a cult. And even within that, you still have people who disagree (Branch Davidians :x). Jehova's Witnesses are no different a religion than Mormonism or Catholicism. It is a religion, through and through.

They do have some behaviours which can provide a negative viewpoint though, but "uncomfortable behaviours" don't translate to cult. And this isn't just my experience with Jehova's Witnesses (my best friend in middle school was one and her parents were ridiculously strict), but the experience of many that have come forward about it, including also some core beliefs which get in the way of basic modern survivability and health. The one I tend to see thrown around the most is being against vaccines because they're injecting stuff into their blood. But they aren't the only ones, and a lot of other religions have such experiences as well. *snip*.

You are correct about the set criteria of a cult and then there are religions. I am sure that many see JWs as being strict. Living fully by Bible principles is not easy in this world today. But there are misunderstandings about health and such. No, JWs will not take any whole blood products, but will accept many non whole blood alternatives and things like cell salvage machines. JWs will also take vaccines. I just had my flu shot and am about to go get my COVID booster. Regarding blood and JWs, it is because of this that so many breakthroughs in non-blood surgeries for everyone have become so successful.

I apologize to anyone if I have offended them with my posts. I agree it has been a strange thread, but it began as a weird one. I started out explaining the number 666 as it is in the Biblical sense (which is what the topic began on), but then misinformation about JWs was posted and I just corrected it. I think anyone would defend something they cared about if incorrect information was being given out about it. Thanks for your responses.

[Saraide]

My cartoonish depiction? I simply explained the facts why the faith itself cannot meet that the definition of a cult as set forth in secular sources (not my own). Anyone can leave the religion when they want and will not be bothered anymore about it. And I am not trying to drag anyone into anything. I just do not like misinformation spread. There is too much of it already and one of the reasons for the hate.



You are correct about the set criteria of a cult and then there are religions. I am sure that many see JWs as being strict. Living fully by Bible principles is not easy in this world today. But there are misunderstandings about health and such. No, JWs will not take any whole blood products, but will accept many non whole blood alternatives and things like cell salvage machines. JWs will also take vaccines. I just had my flu shot and am about to go get my COVID booster. Regarding blood and JWs, it is because of this that so many breakthroughs in non-blood surgeries for everyone have become so successful.

I apologize to anyone if I have offended them with my posts. I agree it has been a strange thread, but it began as a weird one. I started out explaining the number 666 as it is in the Biblical sense (which is what the topic began on), but then misinformation about JWs was posted and I just corrected it. I think anyone would defend something they cared about if incorrect information was being given out about it. Thanks for your responses.

The important part about cultish behaviour is not any specific kind of ritual or believe, it's how they get people back in line. Cults and sects do this by systematic stalking and isolation and it has been proven that JW does aswell, even going so far to push parents to isolate their own children. The exact believes are and have always been irrelevant. The only thing that matters for people is having a community they belong to. This is why conspiracy theorists with completely contradicting theories can harmonize together without problem because the important part is that they are part of the community. The same is true for cults like JW and scientology.

[Midareyukki]

My cartoonish depiction? I simply explained the facts why the faith itself cannot meet that the definition of a cult as set forth in secular sources (not my own). Anyone can leave the religion when they want and will not be bothered anymore about it. And I am not trying to drag anyone into anything. I just do not like misinformation spread. There is too much of it already and one of the reasons for the hate.

You are correct about the set criteria of a cult and then there are religions. I am sure that many see JWs as being strict. Living fully by Bible principles is not easy in this world today. But there are misunderstandings about health and such. No, JWs will not take any whole blood products, but will accept many non whole blood alternatives and things like cell salvage machines. JWs will also take vaccines. I just had my flu shot and am about to go get my COVID booster. Regarding blood and JWs, it is because of this that so many breakthroughs in non-blood surgeries for everyone have become so successful.

I apologize to anyone if I have offended them with my posts. I agree it has been a strange thread, but it began as a weird one. I started out explaining the number 666 as it is in the Biblical sense (which is what the topic began on), but then misinformation about JWs was posted and I just corrected it. I think anyone would defend something they cared about if incorrect information was being given out about it. Thanks for your responses.

Alright. And honestly, thank you for your information. My friend was not allowed to take a vaccine after a meningitis outbreak due to her religious upbringing, and my overall view of it after so long is that her parents were "special". Even within these religions, you obviously will have people who do understand the importance of personal health and safety. But some really don't, and when information is hazy about them, you start to see some stereotypes forming up because of people who either misinterpret things or take them too far.

And the people who "have come forward"? That's nuanced as well; you'll hear a lot of bad experiences... but that will go for any religion. Not every family is the same. Nor are every pastor, every parish nor every community. Religious trauma exists everywhere. My theory for why I see JH's being vocal about their negative experiences is because where I'm from, especially given I'm from a deeply catholic West European country, people here do take it too far. And I know for a fact JHs are rather isolated because of their "queer" customs. And in communities that are so uptight, yeah, they tend to form some uptight groups in turn. That's a sociological phenomenon, not something inherent to a singular religion.

As for what you said about cults, I can corroborate what you said. There ARE very strict guidelines for what classifies as a cult, and yes, a charismatic leader IS one of them. It definitely isn't a cartoonish depiction of things at all. Stuff like:
- Charismatic Leader with a cult and zeal centered around them
- Constant preocupation with amassing members
- Discouraging personal thoughts, criticism and doubts about the group
- Control over their personal lives (what to drink, what to eat, what to wear, who to marry, when to go out, what route to take, who they can interact with)
- Devotion placed into the group's core beliefs is unhealthy
on and on. The list is actually big.
Which Jehovah's Witnesses do not do. No, "spreading the word of God" by going door to door isn't a preoccupation with gaining numbers xD all religions have this, and it's why it's so fuzzy to identify a cult until they've stepped a certain slippery slope. Most religions want more members. But there's a specific motivation for it. Cults want members to gain power and control. Religions want members to gain money and status within a community. They sound similar, but guess who's more willing to jump off a slippery slope?
If you guys want more information on cults, I suggest looking up stuff by Janja Lalich and Michael D. Langone.

As for 666 xD it really is a Western superstition. Don't worry though, it's just a number, and when used you will not summon the Devil even if you happen to be religious about it. It's no different to us than the number 4 in East Asian cultures. Intention is the keyword here. Otherwise maths would need to be banned.

Also cool eyepatch bro.

Is mine good too? ; ;

[Renalt]

Is mine good too? ; ;

It blends with your skin so well it was hard to see but yeah it fits your character well.