The 8th umbral calamity

[Ralphe2449]

With endwalker showing that time travel uses the closed loop design, what is up with the 8th umbral calamity timeline?

The crystal tower and graha tia still exist, and also in the first while at the same time in the source. Without the 8th umbral calamity Graha would never come to the first.

The closed loop design implies that the 8th calamity wasnt really stopped but there's no Garlemald anymore to deploy black rose, so even if another shard ends up going full light the source has been changed to a very big degree for closed loop to be a thing.

[KageTokage]

There's a closed timeloop, but Tales from Shadows also established that divergent timelines are a thing and it's why G'raha did not simply cease to exist once he fulfilled his mission, as the bad timeline continues to exist/progress with a glimmer of hope kindled by Midgarsormr's reawakening.

Though given all the later revelations, it seems exceedingly unlikely that Etheriys is going to survive in that timeline regardless due to Hydaelyn banking entirely on us to save the world.

[Enkidoh]

It's not a time loop per say, but a branching timeline based on the 'many worlds interpretation' (aka, paralell universes), in our current or 'new' timeline the 8th Calamity never occured, and now never will (especially with

all three of the Unsundered Ascians now defeated/killed for good, Venat/Hydaelyn gone forever and Zodiark completely destroyed, so further Rejoinings would serve no purpose, and the Empire destroyed, Varis dead and Black Rose's production shut down for good.).

But yes the Crystal Tower from the original '8th Calamity' timeline still exists, and as one of the stories on the Lodestone confirms, it's now an 'alternate timeline' seperate from the one the player's character is now on. 'Set adrift', to use G'raha's words, but still existing, which is why Future!G'raha/the Exarch and the Crystal Tower did not disappear - the timeline they came from still remains but no longer one the 'present' leads to.

Whether it will play a role in future storylines or just remain yet another orphaned plotline remains to be seen though.

[Adeacia]

They used both a closed loop and diverging timelines. The issue is there is a diverging timeline within the closed loop, which really messes with things. If they kept them separate, then there wouldn't be any real issues.

[Iscah]

The issue is there is a diverging timeline within the closed loop, which really messes with things.

I don't see the issue with it. The diverging timeline splits off from the world in which the Elpis time loop is completed, and occurs alongside the loop timeline while not being directly involved in it.

That said, the divergence is one of the components of the loop, because the Crystal Tower time machine wouldn't be available to us if G'raha hadn't brought it back to us here in the looping path of the timeline. But the simplest version of the premise ("events at Elpis caused the Final Days which caused us to travel to Elpis") is already a causal paradox loop and adding the extra detour ("events at Elpis eventually lead to a diverged timeline where a time machine is built and is brought to our present, allowing us to travel to Elpis") doesn't make it any harder to believe.

(And if you were going to say there's a specific issue with our other self dying before they can travel to Elpis, that's not actually a problem. It was always us that went to Elpis, even in the past as perceived by the survivors of the Eighth Calamity if they could look back that far.)

[Iscah]

With endwalker showing that time travel uses the closed loop design, what is up with the 8th umbral calamity timeline?

The crystal tower and graha tia still exist, and also in the first while at the same time in the source. Without the 8th umbral calamity Graha would never come to the first.

The closed loop design implies that the 8th calamity wasnt really stopped but there's no Garlemald anymore to deploy black rose, so even if another shard ends up going full light the source has been changed to a very big degree for closed loop to be a thing.

As covered in other posts, the story runs on a combination of closed loops and splittable timelines, though we have several examples of loops and only one known split.

My personal take on it is that either can happen depending on the actions of the time traveller while they are in the past. If they change something they know to be true in their future, they create a paradox and cause the timeline to split. If they don't break anything, a loop forms.

G'raha knew the exact circumstances of the calamity and so was able to avert it. By contrast, we don't know anything about Elpis before we go there, and can't change something we are unfamiliar with.

[FireMage]

There actually is no loop. It's ALL divergent timelines, we're just in the one at the end of all the branches

[Carin-Eri]

To be honest, I'm surprised that the 'End Days' weren't considered to be the 8th calamity in our timeline, all things considered.

[Jandor]

The 8th UC world split from the Source, similarly to the other reflection except a century in the future instead of millennia in the past, and it only exists within the mess of thoroughly sliced and diced space-time where Etheirys is.

It's all part of one big time loop, the 8th UC world included. That's my theory at least.

[Cleretic]

To be honest, I'm surprised that the 'End Days' weren't considered to be the 8th calamity in our timeline, all things considered.

It's definitely an interesting question from a societal perspective. Given that the societal definition of a Calamity is essentially 'big damn disasters that enormously fractured, destroyed, or changed society as it was at that point', and it just happened that they lined up exactly with the Ascians' Rejoinings, you can definitely make a claim that the End of Days is a functional Calamity for how badly it hit everyone, especially Garlemald, who like it or not was an enormous influence on Eorzean civilization. Hell, it's debatably even more of one than the Seventh, which was actually pretty localized all things considered.


As to G'raha's timeline: It's working on Dragon Ball rules, it's the same as Trunks' future. The events that led to that future no longer exist, but the timeline still exists somewhere out there in reality. It's effectively orphaned and inaccessible, but it's not clear (and not relevant, or at least won't be for the forseeable future) if that's because it's literally just completely inaccessible by the laws of the universe, or if it's potentially possible but not with any level of current technology or understanding.

An important thing to remember with stories involving time travel is that time travel does not exist, and so does not have objective scientific rules. FFXIV's time travel works however FFXIV needs its time travel to work, and does not need to adhere to any rulesets beyond its own--and being that the game has control over its own rules, it doesn't exactly have to stick religiously to any rules it previously stated, either.

Which is fine and good; both Chrono Trigger and the Terminator were inconsistent with their rules, and just stuck with what worked for the story they were trying to tell.