That Which He Does Not Play

[Midareyukki]

Maybe in trash. You all sound as though you haven't had the fun of trying to clear Brayflox Hard with your Squadrons. And you can use the LB before Alisaie or if you're running on a range just you know use it on trash packs. They can take two sets. Trusts do aoe just not as often.

- Maybe in trash: Ok so easily 60% of a dungeon, got it.
- LB before Alisaie: How about she waited first so we could LB when it actually mattered?
- They can take two sets: Technically so can my squadron when I'm the tank\healer. It's not like Urianger makes me any happy that he's taking Astro and still doing the bare minimum.
- Trusts do AoE just not as often: Ok then why are you even complaining about us saying so? You literally just said as much: they don't AoE stuff down as often, when Squadrons already need a minute to figure that on their own. That is a downgrade.

[SannaR]

- Maybe in trash: Ok so easily 60% of a dungeon, got it.
- LB before Alisaie: How about she waited first so we could LB when it actually mattered?
- They can take two sets: Technically so can my squadron when I'm the tank\healer. It's not like Urianger makes me any happy that he's taking Astro and still doing the bare minimum.
- Trusts do AoE just not as often: Ok then why are you even complaining about us saying so? You literally just said as much: they don't AoE stuff down as often, when Squadrons already need a minute to figure that on their own. That is a downgrade.

Squadrons can take more trash you just need to know how. Alisaie LBs before you cause that's her personality. You also have just like with your Squadron choose to not take her. As both Y'shtola and Estinien will wait. I want to say that they both will refer to you to pop the LB first unless you're busy needing to do something. There are some things that not even Squadrons can eat. And as I said before they're no help in clearing a safe spot if you need to do such. You also get every mechanic with Squadrons even if it normally wouldn't target your role because they can't be targeted by things.

[Midareyukki]

Squadrons can take more trash you just need to know how. Alisaie LBs before you cause that's her personality. You also have just like with your Squadron choose to not take her. As both Y'shtola and Estinien will wait. I want to say that they both will refer to you to pop the LB first unless you're busy needing to do something. There are some things that not even Squadrons can eat. And as I said before they're no help in clearing a safe spot if you need to do such. You also get every mechanic with Squadrons even if it normally wouldn't target your role because they can't be targeted by things.

- Squadrons can take more trash you just need to know how: Yes, that's what I said
- Alisaie LBs before you cause that's her personality: Yes, and I told you before that I'm not playing the game with NPCs for their personality, I'm playing the game for the game. If they're just going to make crap decisions because they have a personality when REAL LIFE PEOPLE I know make some actual effort, why would I want that?
- You also have just like with your Squadron choose to not take her: True. But that was just ONE example. Like you said, Y'shtola and Estinien will wait, but I did mention Urianger's abominable AST skills.
On that note, is Thancred's handicap a detriment to how much DPS he throws out or does he actually do more damage with a caster/Ryne around?
- There are some things that not even Squadrons can eat: Such as? Because I haven't seen that before, and I'm not expecting NPCs to play pitch perfect and eat AoEs for the hell of it. They're NPCs, they're going to follow a set script. They're going to resolve mechanics, because that's what they're programmed to do.
And before you ask, there IS a difference between NPCs following a script and the Scions acting their personalities: NPCs following mechanics isn't inherently wrong and it's how the game's played, whereas the Scions having their quirks is the game promoting bad habits. Even if you think following mechanics that you can just eat is a bad habit, it's a lesser evil imo.
Edit: Also adding that I'm not asking them to play optimally at every step. They're allowed to use skills that aren't the best indicated for the job at a given time, but still do something similar to the effect intended. As long as they don't start healing the whole party with Cure 1, I'm fine with them using Medica 2 over Medica after a raidwide, because it ends up being the same thing.
- You also get every mechanic with Squadrons even if it normally wouldn't target your role because they can't be targeted by things: Is it bad that I actually don't mind this? xD
Though I will agree that on that last bit it IS a downside versus the scions. But it's justified: the Scions are there for the MSQ, so they have to act like real players somewhat. But Squadrons are just glorified pets for you to hang around in optional content.
Rather than going tit for tat trying to figure out which is superior, because some stuff just ends up boiling down to what you want them to do, I was going to propose a merger of the concepts. Have the Scions act a little bit more like the Squadrons and take advantage of the stuff that is superior in the Squadrons. However, the Scions are clearly there for the MSQ, so not everything can be ported over.


So overall, a lot of the stuff that we're going to throw out here is going to be countered by whichever side views it best. But ultimately they're justified. I personally don't want trust NPCs to act out their personalities, because if I see my friend doing a bad habit and I can tell them to improve (and we have that level of mutual understanding), then they'll improve. Alisaie won't hold her guns just because I want her to ult the next mob pack and not this one.
And if you say "well don't take her, you don't need to take any of them", keep in mind you're skirting over the fact that they all have bad habits coded into them, not just Alie or Uri. Not to mention, why not? How many of you actually took Alisaie in Holminster because of what happened just before you unlocked it? To see her reaction (or lack thereof)? At some point you're gonna have Alisaie in there.

Also isn't there a reward for levelling all of them up, Alisaie included?

[SannaR]

- Snip

Thancred at least in ShB doesn't use his full kit if Ryne isn't in the group as he won't use anything in a GNB toolkit that takes a cartridge. Urianger at least when I have him tends to be better than Alphinaud and for me G'Raha is probably the best for healers. Urianger also in ShB does cast death if a pack takes too long. Y'shtola also tends to use an insta kill. Squadrons can't take multiple hits from the bombs during the last boss of Brayflox Hard. I've also had ones that will survive the bomb phase but then die soon after due to the boss having a cleave. I want to say Wander's Palace Hard has a few things that they'll die to. If not Pharos. I'm not saying that they can't stand in a lot of bad that would normally kill most players cause they can. It's just they're glorified FF XI trusts with a bare bones gambit system you can't modify on the fly.

Squadrons also just like Alphinaud prioritizing Alisaie over others can have both the tanks n healers do some pretty dumb ass things. Especially when it comes to status removal or targeting. Even when you use engage and disengage. Squadrons don't do fight mechanics. Trusts will move out of the way and help you get out of things like the queer bubble from the eft boss or the move that happens with Nidhogg where he floats one of your party. Sure caster trusts might always be an eager beaver with the LB and they might not attack while waiting for an aoe to go off. Which is kind of funny as I know the Adventure/Scion Murader and G'Raha do use ranged attacks when they have to peel off the bosses.

I'm not sure how unless you tell your squadron to move or to target something while just standing in the bad vs the Trusts/duty support doing the mechanics and having banter is better or not since many won't attack if they're needing to peel off the boss. At least if you have Y'shtola or do Kitis with the Elpis crew you'll know where to go 100% of the time as those mentioned can see the change in aether. I also don't mind being targeted by everything when running things with the squadron as it is a teachable thing. Yet this would also include tank busters. Probably one of the reasons why they stopped. That and they said they would have to change how dungeons past the Vault behave in order for them to not only just stand there like a dummy but also have things hit the player that normally wouldn't hit them. Unless said role was dead.

You get outfits that you can change them into at 80 and 90. Remove their quirks and personality traits and you'd get people complaining that they don't behave in dungeons the way they do in CSes. Like during Kitis Emet will teleport both him and Hythlodaeus out of the way asap meanwhile Venat will walk over to the safe spots with enough time you can follow her if you didn't notice the teleports. Same kind of thing happens during the tight rope walk part on the final boss of Don Mheg where Thancred shukuchi's over, Urianger will take a few seconds before using aetherial manipulation, Y'shtola instantly teleports, Alisaie sprints, Ryne makes it over at a slow pace and Alphinaud I don't think ever gets over there as he's that scared of heights. Also are you saying your friends don't also have their own personalities? Estinien might eat the 1st Aoe but never does after that. And like I said at least they do the mechanics unlike your squadron who will stand in everything under the sun and in Timbuktu unless you micro manage them. I would love it if they gave squadrons more love, but I just don't see the devs doing so.

[TheMightyMollusk]

On that note, is Thancred's handicap a detriment to how much DPS he throws out or does he actually do more damage with a caster/Ryne around?

He does the same damage regardless. Not using the enhanced skills is a nice nod to consistency, but it's entirely cosmetic.

[TaleraRistain]

The more he says stuff like that the more my patience and goodwill drops. This applies to a lot more than just story content, but it's a phrase long overused when it comes to the basic features people have asked for over the years like Limited Race hairstyles/facial hair/etc. There are a number of comments he made during that stream that are worthy of their own threads but for the time being even I need a break.

The perception of him being out of touch didn't change after all was said and done, that much I'll say.

How is a writer responsible for hairstyles and facial hair? This was based on something Oda said, not Yoshi-P.

[Cygnia]

Don't know whether it is the consequence of the squadron's tactics level improving, but they switched from having to be directed manually to break the bubble trap at Brayflox to automatically prioritizing it. Ditto with a certain set of wings in a Heavensward dungeon (Sohm Al?).
They still do tend to ahem, soak up avoidable damage.
P.S. This may just be down to party setup, but I've only ever seen Y'shtola teleport once - in my recentish runs she fast walks across the illusory tightrope while mad lad Thancred swings over the imaginary crevasse.

Also hi Aveyond! Digging the highlander persona and signature. Is Rosenritter a nod to The Legend of the Galactic Heroes?

[Oldschoolegamer38]

It's a bait and you know it!!

[Stormpeaks]

It's a bait and you know it!!

what is a bait is you bumping this post after a month

[Imora]

Maybe in trash. You all sound as though you haven't had the fun of trying to clear Brayflox Hard with your Squadrons. And you can use the LB before Alisaie or if you're running on a range just you know use it on trash packs. They can take two sets. Trusts do aoe just not as often.

Abilities that trusts use, but not often :

Gravity
Holy
Superbolide
Tetragrammaton
Benediction
Essential Dignity
All the mitigations

I've done "the big pull" in Mt Gulg with trusts. It's REALLY spicy.