That Which He Does Not Play

[PaulH]

Personally I have now read 28 pages and feel I have done an extreme version of the Hokey cokey/pokey for seven days and not been told i was doing it. I need some coffee and Victoria sponge after all this. Clearly i am contributing nothing but I am confused about these forums.

[SassyAssassin]

Nope, more likely he wants to make the game shit and not put any effort into it so people get upset and pay for a sub for a game they hate, that’s why he tazes your balls if you look at the unsub button or try to play anything else.

It’s 4D chess and we just can’t comprehend with our limited capabilities the grand scheme of Yoshi, except for the enlightened ones.

Can confirm.
I tried unsubbing once, almost got my balls tazed and I dont even own balls .

[Lustre]

Yoshi p worship cult is cringe

[Carin-Eri]

Yoshi p worship cult is cringe

Well, to be clear (and with my previous post in mind), I don't worship him. That doesn't however mean that I can't acknowledge the fact that - regardless of opinions and what it is felt he does and doesn't do - he demonstrably works hard.

[aveyond-dreams]

Well, to be clear (and with my previous post in mind), I don't worship him. That doesn't however mean that I can't acknowledge the fact that - regardless of opinions and what it is felt he does and doesn't do - he demonstrably works hard.

If only he worked hard and gave the ok for things that don't impact his preferred playstyle without people going behind his back in order to get things back on track. Unfortunately enthusiasm for these projects varies wildly from the finished quality level of Male Viera to the state Island Sanctuary released in. It looks like a mobile game but with less customization options, while lacking a lot of the things that Animal Crossing/Harvest Moon fans seem to enjoy. He's demonstrating more and more out of touch behaviour as time increases. Telling healers who want more stuff to do to go try Ultimate was but one of many examples of this. A playerbase that enables him to get away with that sort of stuff isn't leading us to anywhere good.

I don't have to list the other many examples of his preferences being not only shown but enforced in game, and I shouldn't have to rely on devs going rogue against the director to give players what they're asking for. Hopefully one of them goes rogue again and delivers some more facial hair for men and revamps healers on the side. Because someone who plays a female Lalafell/Raen Black Mage doesn't seem to understand why players ask for these things nor the importance of listening to them. Maybe that's why this game has lost healers to Classic WoW's Wrath of the Lich King because by level 13 they already have more stuff to do than level 90 White Mages.

[Carin-Eri]

If only he worked hard and gave the ok for things that don't impact his preferred playstyle without people going behind his back in order to get things back on track. Unfortunately enthusiasm for these projects varies wildly from the finished quality level of Male Viera to the state Island Sanctuary released in. He's demonstrating more and more out of touch behaviour as time increases. Telling healers who want more stuff to do to go try Ultimate was but one of many examples of this. A playerbase that enables him to get away with that sort of stuff isn't leading us to anywhere good.

I don't have to list the other many examples of his preferences being not only shown but enforced in game, and I shouldn't have to rely on devs going rogue against the director to give players what they're asking for. Hopefully one of them goes rogue again and delivers some more facial hair for men and revamps healers on the side. Because someone who plays a female Lalafell/Raen Black Mage doesn't seem to understand why players ask for these things nor the importance of listening to them. Maybe that's why this game has lost healers to Classic WoW's Wrath of the Lich King because by level 13 they already have more stuff to do than level 90 White Mages.

Fair enough.

I guess my perspective comes from the fact that prior to moving over to FFXIV I played a heavily-monetised F2P MMO managed by an EP with a background in smartphone gaming. Said game, which I don't wish to name as would prefer not to get into a discussion about that, went from having a pretty generous F2P model to a sleazy FOMO-fueled mess with an over-reliance on loot boxes and expensive (£200 - £300) bundles of items - which wouldn't be quite so bad if not for the fact that they only produce a new episode (worth about 45 minutes play time) every five or so months. And when players question the lack of content, the answer from the CM or Devs, who always show their VERY clear distaste at being asked such questions and have sometimes been quite offensive in how they reply, is always "the lootbox/item/bundle is content".

So no, I don't worship YoshiP - but regardless of his changing attitude and approach he hasn't reached the point where, like that other game, he's trying strip-mine as much revenue from the playerbase as possible, with no regard to sustainability, burnout, or player feedback, before moving on like a locust to find another game to ruin

[Stormpeaks]

Fair enough.

I guess my perspective comes from the fact that prior to moving over to FFXIV I played a heavily-monetised F2P MMO managed by an EP with a background in smartphone gaming. Said game, which I don't wish to name as would prefer not to get into a discussion about that, went from having a pretty generous F2P model to a sleazy FOMO-fueled mess with an over-reliance on loot boxes and expensive (£200 - £300) bundles of items - which wouldn't be quite so bad if not for the fact that they only produce a new episode (worth about 45 minutes play time) every five or so months. And when players question the lack of content, the answer from the CM or Devs, who always show their VERY clear distaste at being asked such questions and have sometimes been quite offensive in how they reply, is always "the lootbox/item/bundle is content".

So no, I don't worship YoshiP - but regardless of his changing attitude and approach he hasn't reached the point where, like that other game, he's trying strip-mine as much revenue from the playerbase as possible, with no regard to sustainability, burnout, or player feedback, before moving on like a locust to find another game to ruin

Uhmmmmm yes he is.

Mog station price increase says hi.

Island says hi.

Boring content and the same mechanics with a different appearance says hi.

Horrible balance and PVP says hi.

Terrible housing system says hi.

[Midareyukki]

If only he worked hard and gave the ok for things that don't impact his preferred playstyle without people going behind his back in order to get things back on track. Unfortunately enthusiasm for these projects varies wildly from the finished quality level of Male Viera to the state Island Sanctuary released in. It looks like a mobile game but with less customization options, while lacking a lot of the things that Animal Crossing/Harvest Moon fans seem to enjoy. He's demonstrating more and more out of touch behaviour as time increases. Telling healers who want more stuff to do to go try Ultimate was but one of many examples of this. A playerbase that enables him to get away with that sort of stuff isn't leading us to anywhere good.

I don't have to list the other many examples of his preferences being not only shown but enforced in game, and I shouldn't have to rely on devs going rogue against the director to give players what they're asking for. Hopefully one of them goes rogue again and delivers some more facial hair for men and revamps healers on the side. Because someone who plays a female Lalafell/Raen Black Mage doesn't seem to understand why players ask for these things nor the importance of listening to them. Maybe that's why this game has lost healers to Classic WoW's Wrath of the Lich King because by level 13 they already have more stuff to do than level 90 White Mages.

Alright, I mentioned before that I thought there was a bit of a leap between your assessment and the starting point you had. Because it felt like you were nitpicking Yoshida off of his one comment about "devs needing to play their own games" and him just not playing IS. But the point now makes a lot more sense.

Because yeah, it is unfair that Male Viera has this much quality to them while all Hrothgars got were laughing at bad renders and poor choice of hairstyles. Even if Male Viera share the same limitations as Viera, in no way are they as bad as Hrothgar have been, nor have they been treated the same way. Him saying "Oh, we were surprised at your response" doesn't help; even if all you play is Lalafell, you can still have some level of empathy for other players and understand what's a bad choice from what isn't. You mean to tell me that he and an entire board room + the people he had working on this, none of them thought that was trash and would be poorly received and thus needed to really think of their approach? Same as how it's downright daft for anyone to be told consistently "Healers aren't doing well, please add more challenges" and the one thought he can conjure is "lol do ultimate". You don't need to play a healer to understand that players at higher levels aren't happy with the current design and want you to reassess it. It's just basic empathy, putting yourself in the others' shoes. There's just so much disconnect between what he says and thinks versus what the community expects.

I mentioned how he had other people in the room with him for these things. Sure, he's their boss, but at the same time, they're still making the game together and deciding on how to go by things. If he isn't capable of mustering up empathy for others, odds are their team can. And some have. But we shouldn't expect them to go rogue, we shouldn't be asking them to. And if it's true that some members of the team went behind his back to make basic headgear work for Viera and Hrothgar, he shouldn't see it as a thing for us to praise, but rather something for he himself to acknowledge the work done and the expectations he's setting up for his own game. As in, "great that you're telling us that your team worked harder than you asked, but rather than have us lick their boots over it, are YOU appreciating the work done and understand what the team cared about?". Assuming, of course, that even happened as he claims it did.

IS is quick and easy content that seems right up his alley, so if he hasn't done lick of it to begin with... :P Has the lead producer forgotten to resub since 6.2?

Originally I thought, "well, he is a busy man. He's actively in charge of two games and a whole department. Man also has a social and private life. We don't know how often he's been playing his game, nor if that schedule varies. Well, he doesn't NEED to play every instance of the game, especially not the moment they come out, right?". And sure, maybe not. But he's not alone. He has a team who also plays the game and can give him insight, even if he himself lacks the empathy. But two things on that.
1 - Assuming he shows up, takes all our feedback on healers and tells his team to sort it out, if he doesn't play through the content, how is he to know whether or not those ideas actually hold up? Because I distinctly remember Drak telling him MCH was in need of attention in Shadowbringers, and he tells Drak "MCH is fine, we just fixed it??". Completely oblivious to the ping problems it has. So he took feedback, knew the class was kind of wonky, and instead of testing it properly, he just shrugged it off as "it's fine enough".
2 - What if he DOES play through the game and thinks it's fine? Thinks the way healers are is more than acceptable, that he can live just fine without character customization and missing headgear, that IS doesn't need the mechanics and options available in Animal Crossing and similar games? What if we're playing a game whose dev thinks streamlining is not only 100% okay but actually ideal while a portion of his fanbase isn't okay with that? Because at that point it won't just be the part that enables him to get away with it that's the problem, it'll also be the developers themselves. Who think this is fine and any attempt at complexity might just be too much for them.

I agree!
I would be ashamed calling the devs lazy

They're not lazy for a lot of things, that much is true. And they do output a lot of content that ranges from mediocre to "needs fixing" at their worst. But they have been complacent and lazy in some aspects, now more than in the years I've been playing this game, and when they're lazy, MAN ARE THEY LAZY.

[aveyond-dreams]

Because yeah, it is unfair that Male Viera has this much quality to them while all Hrothgars got were laughing at bad renders and poor choice of hairstyles. Even if Male Viera share the same limitations as Viera, in no way are they as bad as Hrothgar have been, nor have they been treated the same way. Him saying "Oh, we were surprised at your response" doesn't help; even if all you play is Lalafell, you can still have some level of empathy for other players and understand what's a bad choice from what isn't. You mean to tell me that he and an entire board room + the people he had working on this, none of them thought that was trash and would be poorly received and thus needed to really think of their approach? Same as how it's downright daft for anyone to be told consistently "Healers aren't doing well, please add more challenges" and the one thought he can conjure is "lol do ultimate". You don't need to play a healer to understand that players at higher levels aren't happy with the current design and want you to reassess it. It's just basic empathy, putting yourself in the others' shoes. There's just so much disconnect between what he says and thinks versus what the community expects.

I mentioned how he had other people in the room with him for these things. Sure, he's their boss, but at the same time, they're still making the game together and deciding on how to go by things. If he isn't capable of mustering up empathy for others, odds are their team can. And some have. But we shouldn't expect them to go rogue, we shouldn't be asking them to. And if it's true that some members of the team went behind his back to make basic headgear work for Viera and Hrothgar, he shouldn't see it as a thing for us to praise, but rather something for he himself to acknowledge the work done and the expectations he's setting up for his own game. As in, "great that you're telling us that your team worked harder than you asked, but rather than have us lick their boots over it, are YOU appreciating the work done and understand what the team cared about?". Assuming, of course, that even happened as he claims it did.

Overall an excellent post, and yeah empathy seems to be...exclusive to only some races/classes/pieces of content. All it takes really is a superficial grasp of what FFXIV players want (and the basics of WoW's character creator) in order to come up with a set of options that would allow for a bestial race to release in a state that's complete. Villagers and other sorts of NPCs along with a high degree of variability and customization are readily apparent when I look at what people do in Animal Crossing or that new Disney game. Same goes for healers, when I play one it's with the expectation that there's going to either be enough damage for me to heal or enough stuff I can do to play support.

This game is in sore need of a red T-shirt Blizzcon guy moment. The "relaxed living" content that was supposed to sustain so far while battle content stagnates has been about as engaging as a McDonald's kiosk machine. For once can both battle and crafter/gatherer players receive stuff to do outside of high end raiding or lackluster islands like a Deep Dungeon *and* a Restoration early on in an expansion's life cycle? I'm not saying stuff like this because I hate FFXIV or want to see it fail, I want for the obvious problems we're facing to be resolved. It sure would be nice if the director running this show were a bit more clued in on them. Instead they continue to focus on Twitter, the content creators who refuse to much if anything negative about the game unless there's a two year gap between the start of a problem and when it starts bugging them like Zepla barely making a video on limited race hairstyles prior to the 2nd Endwalker fanfest. I guess the following is the future of the game in more ways than one. Just need to make it G'raha Tia and the Last Stand themed.

[Atelier-Bagur]

Well, to be clear (and with my previous post in mind), I don't worship him. That doesn't however mean that I can't acknowledge the fact that - regardless of opinions and what it is felt he does and doesn't do - he demonstrably works hard.

Sorry, that's considered dev worshipping in their eyes.