Savage dungeons and balance?

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I'm surprised about how people are fixated on Warrior for their sustain without considering DRK or GNB for their AOE damage. Depending on the damage output, a DRK/GNB paired with healing jobs (all healers, DNC, SMN phoenix) or heal-enhancing jobs (MNK mantra, BRD minne) will likely make up for not having Bloodwhetting. Add.: Especially now that Living Dead is basically a Benediction on 5min CD.

We used WAR in dungeons before so we don't have to rely on a Healer in duty finder, because god knows what you might get.

In Savage we KNOW who is going to be our Healer because we PF them or organize a group with them, thus it is prudent to say that we likely have competent Healers. And so far, every Healer has decent healing options without having to resort to [Cure II / Adloquium / Benefic II / E-Diagnosis].

[Mithron]

I'm surprised about how people are fixated on Warrior for their sustain without considering DRK or GNB for their AOE damage. Depending on the damage output, a DRK/GNB paired with healing jobs (all healers, DNC, SMN phoenix) or heal-enhancing jobs (MNK mantra, BRD minne) will likely make up for not having Bloodwhetting. Add.: Especially now that Living Dead is basically a Benediction on 5min CD.

I don't think DRK's damage will be very good in these because I don't think there's gonna be much time to recover MP between pulls, which means healer MP will probably be a major factor too and DRK having so little self healing will probably be a bigger DPS loss than their base damage.

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I don't think DRK's damage will be very good in these because I don't think there's gonna be much time to recover MP between pulls, which means healer MP will probably be a major factor too and DRK having so little self healing will probably be a bigger DPS loss than their base damage.

This will heavily depend on the required heal output relative to damage intake + mitigation during trash pulls. This may also heavily depend on if they made trash pulls relevant and giving unique things to do other than basic AOEing.

In terms of AOE damage, DRK has taken a small hit with Living Shadow's change to drop one of the AOEs in it and making it shorter, but otherwise produces a lot of consistent AOE damage with an initial spike.

Discounting 2x Shadowbringer, Salted Earth combo and Abyssal drain, DRK produces 600 MP per Stalwart Soul combo (translates into +32 AOE potency per combo). It also produces 20 Blood gauge, which translates into on average +14 AOE potency per GCD (1/5th of Quietus, which is +70 AOE potency on average over the Stalwart Soul combo), meaning a Stalwart soul combo actually consists of:

120p Unleash
140p Stalwart Soul +32p in MP +28p in Blood (= 200 AOE potency)

Delirium also enables +500 x3 MP on Quietus, making GCD replacements with Delirium Quietus especially potent (requires 3 targets to be worth it). We also regenerate +200 MP every 3 seconds, which means +3.5p per second passively (using on Flood of Shadow). And ofc our baked-in +10% dmg passive from simply spending our MP.

So in terms of consistent AOE damage output, DRK is in a fairly healthy place and in a burst is fairly strong.

In terms of mitigation, it will depend (sadly) what the damage intake and what type it will be. If there is any relevant magic damage, DRK will have an advantage with Dark Mind + Dark Missionary. If not, they still have TBN on 15s recast, 2x Oblation and Shadow Wall + role actions to chew through. Living Dead will also completely save a healer time to heal every 5min - proactive usage will be prudent.

From Healer side, we have a lot of tools that are either damage efficient (Afflatus), oGCD and/or mitigative.

Unless the actual damage intake will shoot over the output of tank + healer mitigation (and healer oGCD heals) to warrant dps-loss GCD healing, WAR's healing output will likely just be overkill and more of a safety blanket.

[Rithy255]

I feel like PLD has some really good AOE and self healing in dugeons where it can stand against a warrior's sustain, Not sure if it will out damage DRK/GNB, but PLD also works better without raid buffs compared to other tanks due to more sustain, so maybe a PLD would work well with something like SAM/BLM (at least before 6.3), I don't think any tank will be outshined by warrior, I think if im right warrior has the worst AOE currently I believe, I fell into the trap of "omg warrior is busted!" in dungeons before so I get where people are coming from

Again it's harder to say which AOE is best I feel like PLD might have some good burst aoe with some decent sustain aoe, DRK will likely have good aoe, might struggle on the sustain and aoe department, anything that requires healers to outright gcd spam would make DRK bad (So drk is heavily dependent on how hard mobs hit), GNB would also be very strong, I just feel like warrior might struggle to keep up with aoe damage, but that's just a hunch.

I feel like White mage might be heavily favoured for dungeons, using lilies after after pull, I don't see how the other healers will compete at all with white mage...

Physranged, Might be used for their speed boost? idk Phys ranged might be ok after the possible buffs in 6.28 (I think), In general I'm expecting them to not be used as much.
Caster, high aoe for rdm/smn, good single target for BLM, generally comes down to which one saves the most time, as Raise isn't a thing.
Melee, Likely Samurai will be king here, other jobs will be good but because raid buffs will be weaker in 4 mans I see samurai doing well, I think Ninja might be really good at AOE maybe reaper? I'm not sure on which melee does the most aoe damage.