Savage dungeons and balance?

[Aurora428]

This is the internet, and we don't need to wait for facts or evidence before complaining about something.

How many times do we have to wait for facts and evidence? We know how much damage jobs deal in aoe

The only question is how much will be aoe vs single target

Every ranged job sucks in single target. We already know this

"Wait and see" for what? Information on this is freely available.

[SaberMaxwell]

We even have numbers regarding 4 man instances, with tens of thousands of records on dungeon runs and how jobs perform there.

The only thing we can "wait and see" on are specific Criterion mechanics. Everything else is known.

[Ibbers]

My perspective is that because 4man job balance isn’t good, they don’t really have the option to implement tight DPS and heal checks where you can fail even if you do all mechanics correctly and have full uptime.

What is most likely going to happen is that you will just be tested on your ability to do mechanics. That’s all that matters. Like trash mobs would either tickle the tank or kill them in 1hit depending on if you did the mechanic correctly. Or you might get a 50% damage down for doing mechanics wrongly. This conveniently takes all job imbalances out of the equation. If you do mechs wrong, you either wipe instantly or fail the DPS check from deaths and damage downs. WAR has more self-healing than other tanks? Doesn’t matter, you either take no damage or you get oneshotted. If you do the mechs correctly, you pass. Simple as that. Doesn’t matter what job you play.

This is also easy to do because 1 person dying in a 4man cuts your group DPS a lot more than 1 person dying in an 8man, and is going to have a much bigger impact than any job imbalance could have. No raise exarcebates this and essentially guarantees a failure upon death.

In short, I don’t think differences in DPS or healing/mitigation among the jobs is going to matter.

[Mithron]

This is also easy to do because 1 person dying in a 4man cuts your group DPS a lot more than 1 person dying in an 8man, and is going to have a much bigger impact than any job imbalance could have. No raise exarcebates this and essentially guarantees a failure upon death.

In short, I don’t think differences in DPS or healing/mitigation among the jobs is going to matter.

It'll matter depending on what exactly we're doing in these 4 man savage dungeons. Will bosses have a lot more adds than usual? Will there be very little down time to recover MP between pulls? Will there be more time spent on AoE pulls than single target bosses? Will there be strict time limits to clear the dungeon fast enough? All of these factors do definitely play a role in AoE DPS and healing/mitigation differences. What if there's "Negative perks" that you pick up a long the way that reduces things like healing received or slows MP regen?

[Flashy]

We even have numbers regarding 4 man instances, with tens of thousands of records on dungeon runs and how jobs perform there.

The only thing we can "wait and see" on are specific Criterion mechanics. Everything else is known.

I disagree because, as far as damage numbers go, dungeons do not filter out damage padding from DNC and AST etc. So I'm not sure how much of that data is influenced by padding if you get ASTs or DNCs in your roulettes

[Hanayumi]

That is another question, during mob parts it is the only part where such skills actually become useful but considering their current design if they are mandated you have a problem.

If you have a cast that needs to be stunned and you dont have melee to stun it you got issues, considering each class has different form of utility if said skills are required you will further cause group issues.

Do we have any details on how exactly it ll work because I ve only heard about them through youtube videos and there's no concrete details about the entire dungeons other than small bits like no normal rez

Only other things YoshiP mentioned was possibly having to prioritize certain mobs to kill cause they may end doing something detrimental and that wall to wall pulls is certain death, about it really...

[Liam_Harper]

As things stand, AST and phys ranged will be fairly useless for Savage dungeons. AST being miles behind the other 3 on dungeon dps and physical ranged also being bottom dps in dungeons with no 1% role bonus.

Apart from that we'll have to wait and see how they design it, but SGE/WAR/SMN/melee of choice will almost certainly be a strong comp.

[Derio]

I see it being SMN and SAM.

Depending on stun rules it will be SCH or WHM and WAR or PLD.

I do think these adds will be 1 stun then immune. Honestly these dungeons will expose alot of balancing issues if they are tuned to savage level.

[Ralphe2449]

Would be interesting if they made heavy/root an actual useful tool for dungeons though that would make phys ranged a necessity if it is too important, ideally you would want adds or an add that would have something special that could be stopped either by kiting/root+heavy or by consecutive stuns or maybe if you spam sleep?

I really hope savage dungeons require a bit more than just dps/mechanics, the game desperately needs a good use for utility.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Would be interesting if they made heavy/root an actual useful tool for dungeons

Hyoton, your time has come!