Savage dungeons and balance?

[Ralphe2449]

So with classes being designed around 2m burst windows and based on their ‘support’ what happens when those savage dungeons hit and some of those aspects are useless?

Considering you can rez someone in normal means then the whole RDM/Sum advantage is lost and they have nothing to show for it in that content.

Not only that but with the natural downtime that exists between pulls some more burst focused classes can benefit a lot more because their low damage window could be spend during said downtime if it aligns with it letting them start with a huge burst on next pull.

And have they ever even balanced the aoe capabilities of all classes?

Have they mentioned anything regarding class balance and how the savage dungeons will play into it?

[Flashy]

2m burst balance will still apply in savage dungeons if the bosses have tight enrage checks. I'm assuming there will be boss fights along with not-so-trash mobs between these boss fights. If they are handled the same way as expert dungeons where the trash is more of a threat than the bosses then maybe it won't matter much

I'm not sure how RDM's AOE is, but SMN aoe is really good, possibly a top performer. They may lose res value but bring strong aoe

I think it benefits some jobs more than others like NIN that can reset mudras with hide, BLM that can umbral soul and stack up polyglot and go right into their AOE rotation with a fresh set of mana and umbral hearts, DNC prestepping standard (I guess), RPR's harvest moon resets. Also hurts other jobs like SAM who probably still have underwhelming AOE damage and their downtime ability not allowing movement. We'll have to see how tough the trash mobs are, distance between mobs etc

I can't speak on aoe balance or how classes are balanced or expected to perform in 4 person savage dungeons

[Hanayumi]

Wouldnt cry over balancing until we play through it, heck it possible cc skills like sleep, slow, bind could be in the works, we just dunno... As for burst just about every job cept maybe healers have some kind of burst every 1min or so, its just not fully buffed like the 2mins window, so dont think it'll be that much if an ussue

[Mithron]

I think the meta will be WAR/SGE/DNC/SMN, WAR/SGE/SAM/SMN, WAR/WHM/DNC/SMN or WAR/WHM/SAM/SMN. SMN is incredibly well in AoE because every summon has bonkers AoE damage with no falloff.

It mostly depends on how much time we get between pulls, if we can recover MP during that time or not, and if SAM's flat DPS is better than DNC's buffs given DNC is only buffing 4 members instead of 8. Jobs that can consistently do high DPS between 2 minute burst windows will be better than those that heavily rely on damage spikes, which sadly isn't many jobs any more. MCH may be a good pick for this as well. WAR's 60s windows and healing are natural fits. SGE has amazing AoE and healing up time, but may struggle with MP if there's not much down time/MP regen.

NIN has strong potential too with Mudra resets between pulls for double Katons, or Doton if enemies live long enough for every tick, it's just mug loses a lot of value in AoE.

[Equitable_Remedy]

Wouldnt cry over balancing until we play through it

This is the internet, and we don't need to wait for facts or evidence before complaining about something.

[Aurora428]

This is the internet, and we don't need to wait for facts or evidence before complaining about something.

How many times do we have to wait for facts and evidence? We know how much damage jobs deal in aoe

The only question is how much will be aoe vs single target

Every ranged job sucks in single target. We already know this

"Wait and see" for what? Information on this is freely available.

[SaberMaxwell]

We even have numbers regarding 4 man instances, with tens of thousands of records on dungeon runs and how jobs perform there.

The only thing we can "wait and see" on are specific Criterion mechanics. Everything else is known.

[Ibbers]

My perspective is that because 4man job balance isn’t good, they don’t really have the option to implement tight DPS and heal checks where you can fail even if you do all mechanics correctly and have full uptime.

What is most likely going to happen is that you will just be tested on your ability to do mechanics. That’s all that matters. Like trash mobs would either tickle the tank or kill them in 1hit depending on if you did the mechanic correctly. Or you might get a 50% damage down for doing mechanics wrongly. This conveniently takes all job imbalances out of the equation. If you do mechs wrong, you either wipe instantly or fail the DPS check from deaths and damage downs. WAR has more self-healing than other tanks? Doesn’t matter, you either take no damage or you get oneshotted. If you do the mechs correctly, you pass. Simple as that. Doesn’t matter what job you play.

This is also easy to do because 1 person dying in a 4man cuts your group DPS a lot more than 1 person dying in an 8man, and is going to have a much bigger impact than any job imbalance could have. No raise exarcebates this and essentially guarantees a failure upon death.

In short, I don’t think differences in DPS or healing/mitigation among the jobs is going to matter.

[Mithron]

This is also easy to do because 1 person dying in a 4man cuts your group DPS a lot more than 1 person dying in an 8man, and is going to have a much bigger impact than any job imbalance could have. No raise exarcebates this and essentially guarantees a failure upon death.

In short, I don’t think differences in DPS or healing/mitigation among the jobs is going to matter.

It'll matter depending on what exactly we're doing in these 4 man savage dungeons. Will bosses have a lot more adds than usual? Will there be very little down time to recover MP between pulls? Will there be more time spent on AoE pulls than single target bosses? Will there be strict time limits to clear the dungeon fast enough? All of these factors do definitely play a role in AoE DPS and healing/mitigation differences. What if there's "Negative perks" that you pick up a long the way that reduces things like healing received or slows MP regen?

[Ralphe2449]

heck it possible cc skills like sleep, slow, bind could be in the works, we just dunno..

That is another question, during mob parts it is the only part where such skills actually become useful but considering their current design if they are mandated you have a problem.

If you have a cast that needs to be stunned and you dont have melee to stun it you got issues, considering each class has different form of utility if said skills are required you will further cause group issues.

Do we have any details on how exactly it ll work because I ve only heard about them through youtube videos and there's no concrete details about the entire dungeons other than small bits like no normal rez