Suggestion for Samurai

[Reinhardt_Azureheim]

I don't think you three have even played samurai in pvp

Ok our hyperbole meme reaction aside, you are really leaning yourself far out of the window to claim this.

Samurai is my most played DPS in PvP discounting DRK and GNB (because they are dps-y tanks instead), both in ranked and in casual. Samurai for similar reasons like Warrior or Monk has access to Stun and another CC ability along with additional personal defensives in various forms. And just like those two other jobs, SAM works a little harder for their damage output than perhaps other jobs, to make up for having said CC abilities.

If you gave Midare Setsugekka +50% dmg via Kaiten, it would shoot up to 24000 without the Chiten debuff and to 30000 with it. Please also remember you gain this ability using "Meikyo Shisui", rendering you immune to all CC abilities for a guaranteed cast, with the exception of WHM's "Miracle of Nature". This CC immunity goes a LONG way to secure kills and / or bait out CC from the enemy.

Ogi Namikiri would hit for 18000 for the initial cast and another 12000 (or 18000 if you dashed again) on the second one without Chiten debuff, reaching 22500 per enhanced hit under both effects. Putting that aside, each dash does 4000 dmg by itself, so even on the standard combo you get a 7000, 9000 or 12000 ability + weaponskill combo in, depending on the step ofc. And the bind from Hyosetsu is positively strong to disrupt enemies.

All in all, while SAM isn't "perfect" by any means, it is a healthy all-rounder. It has moderate damage, defensives and access to CC abilities, making him an excellent team fight initiator. If I can recommend something that could be fixed, it is Zantetsuken's 24000 dmg not piercing Guard like the Kuzushi-enhanced Zantetsuken does.

[ShanaShirayuki]

.All in all, while SAM isn't "perfect" by any means, it is a healthy all-rounder. It has moderate damage, defensives and access to CC abilities, making him an excellent team fight initiator.

If you're initiating on SAM you're either the sole melee and / or the enemy team doesn't have a WHM, BRD, or RDM. As a SAM you want to go in after the fight has been started and play disruption / skirmish with your binds and Mineuchi; then drop tons of aoe damage with Namikiri and Mangetsu. Rinse, repeat. Initiating on SAM in high Crystal is generally not smart.

They are a pseudo tank with their kit and the sooner Samurai players learn to use their stun and bind correctly the better.

Compared to the likes of DRG and RPR, they are not a pseudo tank. SAM is an all in melee that has no way to escape outside of poor enemy positioning and a kit then relies on said enemy positioning. But I will agree with you on many players not understanding how SAM's kit works, a few of which are in this thread.

No. DRG is tanky (maybe tankier than it should be) but it in no way plays like a tank. Dragoon has zero support, zero CC, zero peel. It's a pure damage class with good mobility and that's it.
Crowd control is king in Crystaline Conflict and the reason DRG performs well without one is because it does insane damage, is insanely mobile, and is insanely tanky, but the reason it's just not blatantly OP is because it doesn't have a stun. SAM is just going to do less damage because of that stun, and that's correct design imo.

You mention that DRG does not play like a tank (while mentioning it's 'insanely tanky') but its entire kit allows it to play like one if need be. An AoE damage reduction every 25 seconds without relying on the enemy to hit you and a LB that allows you to be undamaged for 5 seconds. Combine those with Guard and you have a good point staller during OT. As I mentioned to Reinhardt, SAM does not have a kit suited for prolonged and sustained fights. It wants to dash in, disrupt, deal tons of AoE damage, and get out.

Top 100 SAM btw. Started CC near the tail-end of S1 and the only class I play in PvP.

[Geryth]

You mention that DRG does not play like a tank (while mentioning it's 'insanely tanky') but its entire kit allows it to play like one if need be.

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

[RileyNoxus]

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

So I'm going to assume you have alts right? Because you only have drg unlocked for melee and only warrior high enough to bring into pvp

[ShanaShirayuki]

No, having lots of HP and a mitigation ability that is offset by a de-mitigation ability (that you're ideally using on CD) doesn't mean you "play like a tank". You aren't peeling and yanking enemies at you for a party member who's being focused. You aren't stunning and setting up kills. You aren't shielding teammates. You aren't disrupting spell casts. You run around and hit stuff. That's literally all DRG can do. DRG's kit in no way allows it to "play like a tank". Tank in PvP means a hell of a lot more than just soaking damage.

Nice non-argument. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about; your lack of PvP experience matches your lack of reading comprehension.

[Geryth]

So I'm going to assume you have alts right? Because you only have drg unlocked for melee and only warrior high enough to bring into pvp

Nice non-argument. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about; your lack of PvP experience matches your lack of reading comprehension.

Nothing of substance and personal attacks. The good ol' FFXIV PvP forum experience at its finest.

How, pray tell, is DRG's playstyle anything remotely similar to GNB/WAR/PAL/DRK? Well, I guess if you had an answer, you would have said as much instead of going for the ad hominem approach. No reason to engage further with either of you.

[Latarma]

As it ahs been said drg as no cc or stun adn you can guard our LB. so how is dragon super tanky and op again? now if i had all of my jumps and had multi charges on them and they gave you down for the count statutes for say 5 secs then we could maybe say drg is op and tanky.

[Elfidan]

As it ahs been said drg as no cc or stun adn you can guard our LB. so how is dragon super tanky and op again? now if i had all of my jumps and had multi charges on them and they gave you down for the count statutes for say 5 secs then we could maybe say drg is op and tanky.

Yeah, you don't have CC because you have the Ultimate CC... death. They nerfed the dragoon limit break instead of trying to fix it. The problem wasn't the damage it's that you can't see the damn thing or tell half the time which one is your team or an enemy team. A simple color swap would have done everything it needed.

Dragoon is pretty tanky to be fair. No other dps job can jump into the enemy team basically laugh off their damage then leave and continue to burst them from range.

I do think they should move away from the cast time melee on samurai. All it really does is create a massive gap between the skill floor and ceiling. You can see this when you play with/against good/bad samurai. Really good samurai are a massive threat, but there aren't that many of them running around.

[RileyNoxus]

Nothing of substance and personal attacks. The good ol' FFXIV PvP forum experience at its finest.

How, pray tell, is DRG's playstyle anything remotely similar to GNB/WAR/PAL/DRK? Well, I guess if you had an answer, you would have said as much instead of going for the ad hominem approach. No reason to engage further with either of you.

I ask because looking at your character you don't even know how those jobs work yourself since you don't have them unlocked to being with. And to answer your question I know how the tanks work I'm actually good with them as the with the other jobs as well. So I'm talking from know how every job plays from in pvp granted I wouldn't bring them all into ranked myself for the benifet I'm not going to be better than someone who plays just that job up in crystal

[Geryth]

I ask because looking at your character you don't even know how those jobs work

You don't need to be in the driver's seat of every single job to have a sense of how they play or to know the basic roles of a job type or what kind of abilities enable certain styles of play. A couple hundred CC games teaches you a lot about the play style of each job both as enemies and teammates.

Notice I'm not the one who asserted that SAM should be played more like a tank, I only chimed in the rebuke the notion that DRG is a choice for a tank-style of play. It decidedly is not. And for that assertion I do in fact have the driver's seat experience. Regardless, access to a stun automatically opens up SAM to use it for a variety of purposes - peeling for a teammate getting focused or chased, securing a kill by denying recuperate/guard, zoning enemies out of pushing the crystal, trapping enemies in environmental hazards etc. That makes SAM way more flexible than DRG as far as how they can enable their teammates, and is a major reason it shouldn't be doing as much damage as some of the other jobs.