PVP PLD Cheese Problem

[Teeko]

What? If your team is better and manages to rake up a lot of kills then the paladin combo stops to matter because you will push them away from points before they can get close enough. Battlehigh tends to snowball pretty hard. You raise an absolutely valid point when you ask "is it fun". Arguably the only valid point. The counterplay to paladin combo is to deal more damage to the enemy team and kill their members. If your team cant do that then you're not in the better team.

I'll take that as a "no" then

lmao

[AnotherPerson]

Have you even done any onsal recently? Have any of you? How is any of this a compelling argument for this strategy existing lmao

I play Frontlines almost every day at this point... As I said in the very beginning, it all boils down to Skill Issue.

I might have said it in a playful manner, but I'm quite serious.

But am I having fun when I'm kicking everyone's butt while keeping my party alive and getting first place?
... Yeah? What else would I be doing, other than plotting how to destroy the two Grand Companies and make them fight each other?

How else do you play Frontlines for fun? Get a party with 8 SCH? That isn't mutually exclusive with beating the enemy up.

[Kansene]

Skill Issue.

Was restricted to my phone for quite a while, and didn't feel like typing a huge post responding to your huge post back there using my sausage fingers on a tiny phone screen.

Well thought-out post that describes quite respectfully how to deal with the issue. You're clearly coming from a helpful place, and it's genuinely appreciated, I did read through the whole thing. As far as I read, you're not really condoning or condemning the pld cheese existing in the first place (unless I misremember, it's quite late in the evening at this point and my head's not all there) it would be disingenuous to claim any kind of "defense" for the cheese existing. You've identified a problem and offered solutions to solving it, simple as.

So not gonna really refute anything you've stated. Even the quote above, the "skill issue" rings somewhat true.
The bottom line of my own argument remains however, is that this kind of absolute trashy nonsense mechanic has no right to exist. I have no numbers to back up my claim here, but I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that the vast majority of an FL team is not going to go to these lengths to shut down a paladin and their buddy. In fact I dare be so bold as to claim they wouldn't even know how to. They jump in, and either play a bit for fun, or to get their daily roulette done.
And, anecdotally, what they experience when they queue into Onsal, is a non-stop clown show of seemingly invincible pld cheese that chain caps nodes all over the place and leads to devastatingly unfair victories. Anecdotally, it's genuinely driving people away from that whole frontline. Myself, my SO, and several members of my FC among them, as well as quite a few randoms I've seen claiming in the /a chat that they're just done with the place. Whether they stick to their word, who knows, but I do take their statements at face value.

It's a strategy that warps the entire FL. It's so prevalent that the whole experience of Onsal is leaving a genuinely sour taste in peoples' mouths. I've seen again and again comments like "Well gg, we didn't have pld to cheese with", or "this was my fave FL and now it sucks" and many other, less kindly worded messages.
Do these people simply need to "git gud?" I'd argue they could collectively start training to become hugely better at the game and start dominating through superior strategy and leet skills, but is that a realistic scenario at all? More likely than that is that they'll simply avoid the FL because it's gimmicky and feels horrible.
(char limit, second post inc)

[Xylira]

... it all boils down to Skill Issue.

Yep, I agree that it's a skill issue, but not for the reason you think it is.

Paladin Guardian+Guard capping is braindead simple to pull off compared to the amount of coordination, effort, and most importantly responsiveness that it takes to counter it.

A pair of mediocre paladins working together, particularly if they queue together and are on voicechat, can easily make attempt after attempt at abusing guardian capping. There are methods of disrupting them, but they're not nearly as reliable and often require coordination from more than just two people.

Guardian capping ideally needs to be removed, but at the very least it either needs to be made much harder to pull off or much easier to disrupt.

In the meantime, I stopped bothering to queue for Onsal explicitly because of this nonsense.

[Teeko]

Oh I still have fun in frontline overall but to claim anything other than onsal being an absolute mess with the paladin cheese state is disingenuous at best and I can't take you seriously if you are supporting that playstyle

"just kill the enemy team harder"

MY GOSH Y'ALL SOLVED IT

[Deveryn]

Oh I still have fun in frontline overall but to claim anything other than onsal being an absolute mess with the paladin cheese state is disingenuous at best and I can't take you seriously if you are supporting that playstyle

"just kill the enemy team harder"

MY GOSH Y'ALL SOLVED IT

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best solutions. If you KO more of that team, you take their points away and add to yours

Of course, getting your team to stop crying about PLD cheese and fight as a unit is a whole other matter.

[Teeko]

Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best solutions. If you KO more of that team, you take their points away and add to yours

Of course, getting your team to stop crying about PLD cheese and fight as a unit is a whole other matter.

Next you'll tell me to eat food when I'm hungry, thinking you are some earth shattering problem solver.

There's a reason this is such a common topic amongst pvpers right now- because the current state of onsal sucks. It used to be a good map! There's a reason people complain about the pld cheese right now (although most of it isn't during the matches because that's dumb) and that's because it isn't fun anymore and the only people defending it don't know wtf they are talking about and somehow enjoy defending awful game design.

[Deveryn]

Next you'll tell me to eat food when I'm hungry, thinking you are some earth shattering problem solver.

There's a reason this is such a common topic amongst pvpers right now- because the current state of onsal sucks. It used to be a good map! There's a reason people complain about the pld cheese right now (although most of it isn't during the matches because that's dumb) and that's because it isn't fun anymore and the only people defending it don't know wtf they are talking about and somehow enjoy defending awful game design.

You wanna talk about overstating the obvious? It's this whole thread right here. It's been a known issue. I pointed to the PvP section where this belongs because there are already a bunch of threads about it, none more newsworthy than the other.

Yes, it sucks. It will be fixed at some point, but it's not like it's impossible to win a match.

[Teeko]

You wanna talk about overstating the obvious? It's this whole thread right here. It's been a known issue. I pointed to the PvP section where this belongs because there are already a bunch of threads about it, none more newsworthy than the other.

Yes, it sucks. It will be fixed at some point, but it's not like it's impossible to win a match.

That's fair, I just personally dislike seeing people even try to support the state it's in. I've won plenty of matches against aggressive pld cheese teams but the cost in fun factor was pretty high every time because I'm the type of player that marks the paladins and their partners, tries to CC them before they reach nodes, and makes callouts for them.

I've had some matches miraculously without any cheesers and I sat back in my chair and went "wow...this is nice" and that to me is huge.

[Wolwosh]

You will still get a reward for second and third place in Frontlines, regardless of how you perform.

Yeah right.. Having to wait quite a while just to get in only to get cheesed to 3rd place feels very rewarding. They'll surely wanna q for it again after that..
If people start mass teleporting people sniffing copium like you will say just kill them before they teleport..