Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Jynx]

in AV/CC you have to kill 3/4 of a dungeon to get through next area and 5 chest....? I wonder if you ever speedrun before in the new dungeon.

I have not done any speed runs of the new dungeons, I hardly play them personally. I assumed that aside the forced encounters people did the same thing as Darkhold and skipped as much as possible.

[Req]

I think you all need to check your definition of a "zerg." "zerging" is attacking something with quantity instead of quality. You can only take 8 people into a dungeon at a time, and that is what the instances are balanced for. There is nothing in this game that can make a crappy player do 150 dps to mistress, which is what would need to happen to get the 17 minute speed run achievement.

A good 70% of your damage output, if not more is skill based, you can take the shittiest player and deck them out with the best gear and nothing will make them be on par with a skilled player who knows their job well, even if that skilled player is sitting there in basic AF.

There are no kraken club dark knights, there is no 2 houred double haste and attack buffs, there is absolutely nothing that will make a shitty player do insane amounts of damage.

The only thing that qualifies as a zerg in this game right now is if you were to take 15 players and go fight the stronghold bosses when those fights were balanced around having a single 8 man party.

[Chardrizard]

I have not done any speed runs of the new dungeons, I hardly play them personally. I assumed that aside the forced encounters people did the same thing as Darkhold and skipped as much as possible.

Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward

[Velhart]

what the heck, dev promising communication with players doesn't mean they're gonna bow and give in to the players and start giving out epic lootz and kissing their feet once someone cry about low drop rate of something that is suppose to be rare.

and what happens if the respond they gave are not what YOU want to hear? whine rant rage cry again?

It isn't necessarily about changing anything. It is giving justification to why they decided to go this route when we have successful forms of play like Garuda's reward system in place. Why do you assume we are wanting easier content? We want hard content that plays an equal playing ground for people.

I will only repeat myself as many times as the people who come in and don't understand the intent of our complaints. If you need it in a tl;dr fashion, here it is: We don't want quest progression through RNG. There you go.

If they don't say what I like, I will simply disagree. You can't completely change a quest structure, since people are already progressing through it. What I want personally is only a response explaining why the RNG system is in place instead of a viable token like system, or a large based progression system.

This isn't exactly for changing what is right now, it is making sure our future in 2.0 is a pleasant one and not a system based off RNG that most people are not very fond of. Do I think they should change some things in the quest? Yes. Can they do it? Yes. Should they do it? Yes. I will understand if they can't at this point, but put me at ease that in the future, any hard work I put into this game will be worthwhile.

[Murugan]

Nope, you are forced to kill like 3/4 of the mobs there to move forward

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed, there is no real skill or talent involved you can't run faster or punt lalafells with such precision that they land on the portals just perfectly. You can just run a precise route that is the fastest route from point A to B, with as little interruption as possible.

Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested through endgame content.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments (great saves, last stands, caught off guard...backs against the wall, against all odds type moments) rather than monotony and stop watches. Which is all they have given us in dungeons so far unfortunately

[Krausus]

Yeah, would love Yoshi's personal response even if he decides to keep the quest line and his justification, so people would finally stop posting in this thread repeating the same thing lol.

yoshi would probably say QQ more plox! then get on his character and randomly PK folks

[Chardrizard]

You are forced to kill certain mobs. I don't really think it is quite 3/4ths in AV, CC maybe but its not like they are even proper trash when many of them are killed in one round of AOE.

Also skill I don't know... its still all about efficiency from the moment you enter. Even though people may blow through the bosses due to their skills at their jobs basic role, in the end the majority of that 17 minutes amounts to a race through a dungeon we've all done a hundred times with characters who all run at a set speed. That's not really being skilled at anything but efficiency. Efficiency is definitely a skill, it just isn't the skill I'd personally choose to continuously hold above all others when playing a video game for fun.

I'd rather our reaction, or more complex demands on a group's ability to work as a team be tested.

Enjoyment> Efficiency, and first kills are always more meaningful than fastest farm kills. SE needs to get endgame back on track and provide us with a more enjoyable experience filled with memorable moments rather than monotony and stop watches.

I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

[Reinheart]

My Guess for what devs are trying to do:

- Hardcore gamers will try for the 5 chest 17min run for the items

- Semi Hardcore gamers will keep on trying the 25min TA and hope they get enough items

Casual players who thought they were going to get AF weapons and not Relic weapons either gave up totally or will have to wait till level cap increase or some action/dungeon adjustments in the future where the runs can be much much easier to clear under 17min with 5 chest, kind of like running through Totorak. They will eventually get the AF weapons but almost never at same speed as those Hardcore/Semi hardcore people.

Kind of goes back to how YoshiP wanted it to be where hardcore players has these weapons and casual players can look at them and go "Oh wow, I want that weapon some day!" and once they get the hardcore has newer weapons to keep the game going.

Which is fine in all, just again wished they didn't do this for the first version of the AF weapon at least.
1st version AF weapon - looks pretty (less details than final one) and crappy stats - players will be able to take pics and all that just like how SE showed off jobs screen shots all with these weapons. Most with this will eventually store the weapons in storage and start using regular weapons with materia melded on.

2nd version AF weapon - looks better, awesome stats for now, much much harder to make - as newer weapons come out it gets outdated or they will add 3rd version of the AF weapon with more.... then 4th... or something like that.

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Anyways did any group get 5chest under 17min yet?

[Murugan]

I guess thats why i dont really mind speedruns because playing with efficient people is my enjoyment! need full darklight unnff...

I enjoy playing with skilled people, who know their roles. But I'm not so anal retentive that I get kicks from being timed from the moment I enter a dungeon. Do you time yourself doing household chores for fun as well?

Give us rage timers on bosses, hell give us a hallway or a puzzle that we have to figure out in a limited amount of time. Just enough with the clock on every mundane detail of the dungeon...

I'm not a huge cutscene person, especially after I've seen them a hundred times, but what a waste those are. They are actually a hindrance to speed runs. What a scandalous exploit it would be if someone could figure out how to remove them and regain those precious 10-15 seconds lost at the start of every fight. How fast a person can exit a cut scene is I think more important than the difference between someone wearing darklight or not (in terms of seconds saved). People may actually be better served focusing on improving their cutscene exiting skills, rather than farming the rarest drops in the dungeons.

[Mirana]

Yeah, would love Yoshi's personal response even if he decides to keep the quest line and his justification, so people would finally stop posting in this thread repeating the same thing lol.

I really would like to see he answer with just one single word
"NO"