Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Chardrizard]

You get 1 totem if you dont speedrun garuda

[Arkine]

You get 1 totem if you dont speedrun garuda

Still awesome, you win you get one, you win fast you get two and if you're lucky you get a weapon.

Granted speed runs are not my ideal choice for measuring skill but even one headdress is measurable progress and that's great.

[Jynx]

I think speed-runs are a terrible way to measure "Skill" personally. I'd rather there be a optional boss or something you have to take out, or do a specific task within the dungeon like a puzzle.

[Chardrizard]

I think speed-runs are a terrible way to measure "Skill" personally. I'd rather there be a optional boss or something you have to take out, or do a specific task within the dungeon like a puzzle.

Which then everyone can easily beat once a video surface on how to tackle them.

Nyzul in FFXI was intriguing before with how many objective inside, is it fun? Yes. Is it challenging? It was when it was first released, Not really after everyone figure out how lamp orders works and stuff. Everyone basically have nyzul gear easy.

[Jynx]

Which then everyone can easily beat once a video surface on how to tackle them.

Same can be said of speed runs really.

It's a shame the proliferation of the internet kind of works against the MMO genre, while you would think the free flow of information would be a good thing it leads to more challenges when designing content. Nothing will be perfect and no system can totally be made to test a individual players skill or if they just memorized a video and it's step by step instructions.

I still personally think something other than speed runs is the answer, even if it doesn't test skill either I just find that. Finding out what mobs you skip and what ones you zerg to death is not a fun way to run the dungeon I understand it creates alot of stress to do things properly but I want my dungeon runs to be fun and challenging. Speed runs are counter-productive in the "Fun" aspect for me at least.

I'm sure alot of people enjoy stretching themselves thin and seeing how fast they can do things, that in itself is a challenge I wont deny it. It's just not my idea of how we should be rewarding people, because it sucks to go into a dungeon with a odd-ball party setup manage to beat it and still get the short end of the stick because you didn't go in with the "A" team.

I think even having specific tasks *Let's say multiple tasks made for all sorts of different setups* that are optional give a way to reward people who go in with different kinds of teams but are still effective. While this is no way diminishes the effect of Youtubing the content I think it's a step in the right direction to reward a broader spectrum of players than just the Speed-demon teams.

[Velhart]

Same can be said of speed runs really.

It's a shame the proliferation of the internet kind of works against the MMO genre, while you would think the free flow of information would be a good thing it leads to more challenges when designing content. Nothing will be perfect and no system can totally be made to test a individual players skill or if they just memorized a video and it's step by step instructions.

I still personally think something other than speed runs is the answer, even if it doesn't test skill either I just find that. Finding out what mobs you skip and what ones you zerg to death is not a fun way to run the dungeon I understand it creates alot of stress to do things properly but I want my dungeon runs to be fun and challenging. Speed runs are counter-productive in the "Fun" aspect for me at least.

I'm sure alot of people enjoy stretching themselves thin and seeing how fast they can do things, that in itself is a challenge I wont deny it. It's just not my idea of how we should be rewarding people, because it sucks to go into a dungeon with a odd-ball party setup manage to beat it and still get the short end of the stick because you didn't go in with the "A" team.

I think even having specific tasks *Let's say multiple tasks made for all sorts of different setups* that are optional give a way to reward people who go in with different kinds of teams but are still effective. While this is no way diminishes the effect of Youtubing the content I think it's a step in the right direction to reward a broader spectrum of players than just the Speed-demon teams.

Agreed. While people will inevitably find a way to blast through something in the current version, there is much better ways for SE to hold back that inevitability than speed runs.

[Asiaine]

Now I'm officially depressed ; ;.

If it takes these really fast runs to win, then I am pretty much out.
1 -- I'm on during odd times and can not find enough people to go with consistently to be able to do it that quickly. Beat CC/AV: No problem. Do it in < 17 minutes... that's a problem. Even with content finder this will be problematic.

2 -- I don't like super-fast-paced-blow-things-up-action games. When did final fantasy become so focused on being fast and an action game?


Not giving up on FFXIV.. just giving up on content like this. Hopefully it won't be the theme for the majority of content such that I have nothing else to do....

[Enfarious]

Now I'm officially depressed ; ;.

If it takes these really fast runs to win, then I am pretty much out.
1 -- I'm on during odd times and can not find enough people to go with consistently to be able to do it that quickly. Beat CC/AV: No problem. Do it in < 17 minutes... that's a problem. Even with content finder this will be problematic.

2 -- I don't like super-fast-paced-blow-things-up-action games. When did final fantasy become so focused on being fast and an action game?


Not giving up on FFXIV.. just giving up on content like this. Hopefully it won't be the theme for the majority of content such that I have nothing else to do....

Sadly, this seems to be the direction for now, we'll see at 2.0. So far with the mass pull for links AoE xp pt stylings, all "EG" stuff so far, cept maybe hamlet, being built around "How fast can you do it" well there's not a whole lot of the old think while you fight, it's all becoming fast-twitch muscle memory content and memorize the patterns scripted enemies.

[Velhart]

Sadly, this seems to be the direction for now, we'll see at 2.0. So far with the mass pull for links AoE xp pt stylings, all "EG" stuff so far, cept maybe hamlet, being built around "How fast can you do it" well there's not a whole lot of the old think while you fight, it's all becoming fast-twitch muscle memory content and memorize the patterns scripted enemies.

Hamlet is basically FFXIV's take on Plants vs. Zombies. While it is fun and unique to the MMO genre in it's own right, it still feels more like a mini-game than anything. The thing that makes it even easier is that all three Hamlets work exactly the same as in patterns. The tank kills the NM's and kites the boss, crafter/gatherers do the same routine, and WHM's heal archers. Even the NM's pop the same way. First NM pops in a unique location, second comes into the gate, and the zombie pops in a unique location after all mobs are defeated.

Hamlets are really not the hard part of the quest. The seals have been dropping, only reason I don't have many seals is simply because I keep losing at /random. The main concern is using RNG in general when people have complained numerous times (including myself) in the relic quest. There is no equal playing ground with people. It is either you are lucky or you are not.

[Chardrizard]

I think the Nyzul route is the best way to go. It would be better than what we have right now. Instead of (Blow up mobs > Blow up more mobs > Kill mini-boss > Blow up more mobs > Boss > Disappointed in loot.). At least lamp puzzles was a way to challenge your party and be on their toes. Admittedly the puzzles in Nyzul did fall under a pattern people figured out, but I think SE could of worked with more than what FFXI could offer on that regard.

I do agree also Garuda is a step in the right direction. However, the relic quests show that SE took a step backwards and fell over a coffee table. How can a system that works well like Garuda not be implimented into these quests? Why does SE believe RNG is the way to go right now? Why can't they come out and justify the reasons for using it? These are answers I want from them.

If Yoshida can come out of hiding and say why he believes this system works and makes a good counter-argument, I won't complain. I would like to see however if he can justify prolonging content by using this horrid system, especially after making something everyone was in favor of in Garuda.

Even if they offer more, it will still fall under patterns which sooner or later will be figured out. But when it comes to teamwork sync test, things can go haywire even if you are following pattern if you are under a clock, while i believe that speedruns isnt the best, i have yet to see anyone with better idea/method to test your entire party skills, gear check, and raid awareness as well as speedruns does.

Regarding RNG, so far the only bad the lowest rate is only 18% from double melds, which honeslty isnt bad but i'd rather not go into this topic bc i can assure you some retard will come in here exegarrating this number like it has 1% meld rate or darklight droprate and they somehow know u can go 1/200, which isnt the case if you know 18% is more than 1%, but stupid ppl is always around so meh.

I am also not a fans of rng, i hope they could just make me turn in 5x mailbreaker that has been fully spiritbond but really.. Its just not as bad as ppl thought of if you double melded something before.