Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Kinseykinz]

Here are my main problems with the system...

1. These are weapons for Battleclass jobs but they require a lot of time/money/luck/dedication on gathering and crafting classes just to get started. (Steps 5 and 6). So basically you either have to spend a lot of time farming/spiritbonding/crafting to create and meld the proper weapon OR you have to be rich to buy your weapon.
2. Earning your relic weapons doesn't require proving any skill or ability on the job its for. (Sure, you'll need to do some battles/dungeons/etc to get the items needed for the weapon, but you are not forced to do it on the proper job and nor is clearing AV as a blm in a full party the same thing as a Maat fight...for example)
3. EVERYTHING is based on a random system.
4. Relic weapons at level 50??!! are you serious?
5. How long are these going to be the 'best' weapons...because if we put in ALL this time and effort and pain, we don't want to just have the replaced in 8months with something better.
6. Some of the weapons are awesome but others.... I mean really, do you HATE Palidins?
7. Part of 6, but as some classes and jobs still seem a little unbalanced, maybe we should be waiting to add relic weapons...

I basically agree with the OP...not even because I dislike the random system, which I do to some degree, but because i just feel that a Relic weapons should be a reward for passing a DAUNTING trial wherein the player demonstates a very high level of skill using the Job the weapon is for, and not just random. I want few people to earn the weapons not because it's too time-consuming and mindnumbing to do, but because it is genuinely that HARD to do. And if creating the proper storlines/quests/etc. to support this couldn't be placed in the game atm, then maybe this is one of those things we should have had to wait 'Until 2.0' for.

[Giant]

To: Yoshida-san and the FF14 Team

Seeing the requirements for just opening up the Quest for the Relic Weapons (not even earning the final Relic), I have one plea:

* Please STOP relying on the "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" to use as a Time Sink to keep the players busy.

We realize you have to keep the players busy while you work hard on 2.0. Many of us are *fine* with Long Term Goals and needs to draw out content.

But NOT through the current "Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate" style of rewards we've been suffering through from Ifrit Weapons to Darklight to Materia Melding and Primal Seals, and now with the rest of the steps of the prerequisites for the Relic Weapon Quest (and this isn't even the final step).

For those that don't know, thanks to Sniper and other veterans we've confirmed that the steps just to activate the Relic Weapon Quest are:



Yoshida-san, this is essentially just "Rolling the Dice / Gambling / Playing the Lottery." It emphasizes REPETITION and DUMB LUCK to stretch out content.

I realize you can't create brand-new, detailed Story-based Missions that are full of Unique Monsters that we'd have to take down (for example, Chains of Promathea's Story Missions (early days)) since you're focusing on 2.0.

But using Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rates to make things last longer *doesn't* make the content or rewards "difficult." It's simply the easiest, most mind-numbing way to stretch out content.

How about *rewarding* players for their *effort* and *skill* instead?

Here are some quick ideas using your CURRENT ASSETS (with minor work at best) that would make the Relic Weapon Prerequisites more fair and based on Player Effort and providing CHALLENGE:

• Prove Your Skill & Teamwork by: Defeating Aurum Vale & Cutter's Cry without dying (no deaths).

• Prove Your Tenacity and "Learn" to bond with your Weapon by: Defeating 500 Enemies (Equal Level or Higher, or whatever specific Mob) with your "Broken (early) Pre-Relic Weapon."

• Prove Your Valour by: Defeating Certain "New" Notorious Monsters (NMs):
  • Infected Great Buffalo: Re-use the SAME Buffalo NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Uraeus: Re-use the SAME Uraeus NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Mosshorn: Re-use the SAME Mosshorn NM Model, but buff it up.
  • Infected Dodore: Re-use the SAME Dodore NM Model, but buff it up.
  • "New" Guivre / Drake NM: Re-use the *awesome* looking Guivre / Drake monster (we already have in-game), but scale it up 20% and balance the damage on its moves.
    
    For those that have never ventured to the farthest reaches of Eorzea, you should walk around and see these awesome looking creatures we have in-game. The Doomvoid Guivre, for example, looks amazing and glows when it attacks, etc. SE can easily turn this into an "NM" with some tweaks, without having to make a brand-new Model.
    
    http://ffxiv.zam.com/Im/image/177621
    http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Fi...voidGuivre.png

• Defeat All *3* Beastmen Strongholds using your "Broken Pre-Relic Weapon" Without Dying.

• Overcome the "Secret / Reverse Path" of [Dzemael / Cutter's Cry / Aurum Vale]" and gain the [Enchanted Item] at the end to continue. This would be re-using our current Dungeons, but let's say after you clear it (going forward), a new "Gate" highlights and you open up a Side Path (or run the dungeon in Reverse) with BUFFED UP Mobs, new Objectives, etc. (using the same mobs as before), etc. (Obviously Boss placement would be at the "end" of the new path / reverse dungeon path.)

• Incapacitate All Body Parts from [Certain NM] and Defeat them: This would challenge players to work on destroying various Body Parts of an NM before defeating them, and it would emphasize, weaving in and out, avoiding attacks from various sides, overcoming the Adds perhaps, while breaking down a Boss.

I'm not saying these are the best ideas (at all), but they all are MUCH BETTER than rolling the dice and playing the Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate game that you have now.

Even the mundane task of "killing 500 Enemies" that I listed (with your broken Relic) is at least a *measurable* task that EVERYONE can gain the benefit from.

The key point is that it's much more palatable, encouraging, and desirable to know that you are making positive progress each time you effort, instead of just hoping and praying that you get the lucky DICE ROLL and you happened to get your drop for a Primal Seal (which you need 9 of from 3 separate Hamlets (that need to be in Stage 2, that need a 60,000+ Point Total, and that has a low drop rate), or a drop for your HQ Mats to craft one of the new hard Synths (Class Weapons), or you get the lucky roll for your Double Melding Materia on that Weapon to turn in.

And in addition to measurable progress (like a Point System, or # of Kills, or Ancient Currency (like Dynamis)), is the hope of something that also rewards more Skill and Effort instead of just pure dumb luck.

Yoshida-san, the new 2.0 Screenshots and Artwork and your new Interviews are all wonderful and encouraging, and it gives us hope.

But then at the same time, we get punched in the gut with YET ANOTHER "RANDOM NUMBER GENERATOR / Dumb Luck / Gambling / Rolling The Dice" task with the Relic Weapon Upgrades.

Please reconsider the Quest Path for Relic Weapons, and especially for the *majority* of 2.0 End Game Content.

And note that we're *NOT* asking for everything to be "easy" or "given to us fast." Long Term Goals are OK (and I love them)! But we need to have Rewards Systems that actually reward Player Skill and Effort and provides Good Challenge, instead of just making us SPAM / Throw Ourselves at a certain task over and over and hoping for a Blind Luck Dice Roll.

There's NO skill in praying that you can Double Meld 2 Tier IV Materias onto your costly Class Only Weapon. It's just gambling and rolling the dice.

Same for hoping you get 9 Primal Seals dropped into your inventory, spamming the same Hamlet Defense over and over.

2.0 shows *so* much promise. Please don't ruin our expectations and demoralize us with any more of this Random Number Generator / Low Drop Rate-style content.

Thank you!

Totally agree +1

[Mudd]

This is disgusting. I want to quit the game right now and never return.

How can SE expect to revive the game if stupid systems like this exist?

This is HUGELY de-motivational if true. If 2.0 has future systems akin to this, it will fail.

Well, I gotta say.. I would actually like content like this in the game. That stuff thats a huge process to get so that when you have it, it's like an actual accomplishment. It's not like people have to get the AF weapons on patch release.
It should take some time to do things of large magnitude.
I think what should be hoped for 2.0 is content to do in between while you get things like the AF, on the side.

Edit: Not to say that the AF weapon requirements shouldn't be lightened a little bit, but again, for a select amount of content to be this strenuous to acquire would be pretty cool imo.
Edit2: Also, that Karma system mentioned page 1 would be pretty awesome.

[AtryxEtair]

Is diferent when you are looking for only 1 drop than 9 drops, Statistics never lie.

9 drops with a 2.5% (20% drop / 8 party members) have a mean of 360 hamlets to get them all by yourself.

So is too similar to have a 100% drop and asking you to have 360 items. Mean and Standard Deviation. Could be more frustratting for you because between your drops you can have 50 or 100 hamlets withtout a drop, but needing 9 drops, your result will be closer to the mean (360 hamlets).

Its all in your mind.

100% drop, you need 360
50% drop you need 180
25% drop you need 90
5% drop you need 18
2.5% drop you need 9

the only thing is diferent is the Standard Deviation, but with 9 is not so high to feel too much diferent between you and another one.

Ah looky here...intelligence. Looks great on paper but one needs to not only focus on the system. But how the system affects and interacts with a player.

100% drop for 360 runs is a motivator. One could say "I will do enough runs to get 100 drops a week for a month and be finished in less than a month."

2.5% drop for 360 runs is a discouragement. One could say "I will do 120 runs a week and get about 3 per week and be finished in less than a month."

In the first scenario the player will always have motivation and a clear cut goal and is more likely to make progress.

In the second scenario the player is more likely to become discouraged after a stretch of no drops. And more likely to justify not doing the second half of her/her run "quota" for the week because it seemingly doesn't make a difference. Thus slowing the overall process.

You are correct with the fact that is all about how you perceive it. But that does not make it okay for someone to mislead and present something to us in such a way.

[Elexia]

To be honest the only thing they could do for this is:

1. Make Hamlet more like Campaign from XI and throw all gear/seals into purchasable category with points you build through it, that way people who complain about RNG can buy the seals eventually.

2. Offer the mats for cheap, since let's face it the only reason you people bitch about needing a double melded weapon is because you likely never bothered to get a melded weapon before or after you got a primal weapon, most people I know already rocked double+ melded weapons.

3. Upon 2.0 make Hamlet more open world since the new client and servers should be able to handle it, which seems to be the main reason hamlet isn't as popular as it could be, because it's another 'spammable instance' which thus created an extreme RNG. (Face it, spammable content = you aint getting shit in short order.)

Otherwise getting a relic weapon isn't bad at all, it'll take awhile yes, and are you forced to do it? No, but these aren't just run of the mill weapons and no matter how you spin it, people who are complaining about this are wanting these weapons to be easier to get. It seems extreme when you eyeball it and go for it all at once but think about it:

You had damn near a month to build up the prereqs already.

[Babydoll]

I wonder how many people would be upset if SE just changed it and said.

SE: We have heard your cries and are changing the relic system to all point based!
You require: 2000 Hamlet points (one per win)
You require: 1000 materia points (One per double Tier IV meld, four for tripple, 10 for quad)
You require: 1000 Cutters cry points (One per win, two if speed run)
You require: 1000 Aurum vale points (One per win, two if speed run)

It's got points guys~

This is not what the majority of the community is talking about ^^; We want an actual challenge..not a time sink that anyone can do. As I said in the other thread..if anyone played FFXI back when Dynamis FIRST came out..you will remember how it was actually difficult? Yeah, like that. Something where..when you see the person with a relic weapon and you think WOW! Badass! Not...oh ok..they got really lucky or have no life and can sit on the game spamming the same thing 2000 times. ._.

We don't want to mindlessly spam something over and over...or some silly point system. Most folks here want challenging, fun and rewarding content.

Also from what I see..there is a lot of issues with this current RNG system SE has goin on. If Yoshi is truly serious about listening to feedback from the community and players this time..I sincerely hope they take this into consideration. This is my only gripe with this game at the moment...the RNG crap.

[DevakiDash]

Kiara, this is an excellent post. I love your suggestions because they completely make sense and sound challenging (without dumb luck being involved).

[Chardrizard]

This is not what the majority of the community is talking about ^^; We want an actual challenge..not a time sink that anyone can do. As I said in the other thread..if anyone played FFXI back when Dynamis FIRST came out..you will remember how it was actually difficult? Yeah, like that. Something where..when you see the person with a relic weapon and you think WOW! Badass! Not...oh ok..they got really lucky or have no life and can sit on the game spamming the same thing 2000 times. ._.

We don't want to mindlessly spam something over and over...or some silly point system. Most folks here want challenging, fun and rewarding content.

Also from what I see..there is a lot of issues with this current RNG system SE has goin on. If Yoshi is truly serious about listening to feedback from the community and players this time..I sincerely hope they take this into consideration. This is my only gripe with this game at the moment...the RNG crap.

Lol oh god i hope they implement this, make couple of fights that was balanced for triple melded gears character, and see who is gonna complain after. I swear it will be the same people asking for a challenge.

They are gonna still complain when nobody does it because its way too hard, its clearly proven that most NA population couldnt even beat garuda except the established LS.

[Babydoll]

Yup lol no way people will ever stop complaining...but maybe it can alleviate some of it >_< Haha in FFXI people didn't complain because there was no official forum..instead they all just quit X)

[Maxthunder]

You may be spamming content, but it's guaranteed progression, which is the issue at hand. There is so much RNG, and not enough, "if I put in time, I'll get at least a little bit closer to my goal."

Not really as there are how many players after said item? You most likely wont make any progression because of the fact that every in a group wants said item.