Yoshida-san: Please Give Us a BETTER System for Relics and Future 2.0 Challenges!

[Firon]

Hardly.

Not everyone opposed to the current relic system is 'casual'.

On the other hand, I was being rhetorical anyways.

This ^ I'm far from casual i'm just tired of playing Craps and constantly getting Snake eyes.

[Dragon]

Shitty players shouldn't be able to access everything because they're on alot and good players shouldn't be barred from said content because they don't play enough. Time spent online shouldn't be a deciding factor, within reason, say 2~3hrs should be enough time to go in and do anything once. Though what we ended up with was a little obnoxious.

Well you should've read my previous posts in this thread - I don't really like the current relic system and the current RNG system (which more than anything does support the casual base, since all you need is a bit of luck and you're done with it - no long-term effort whatsoever), and I'm not a casual player by far. (Though that doesn't mean I'm not going to participate in it; for the moment I'm just unsure whether I'll stick around beyond 2.0 and bothering with it would just be a huge waste of time should I decide to leave after 2.0.)

For the record, Dynamis was only 3hrs long and anyone that took more than 30 mins to get ready for it should've been booted as it only took a terrible linkshell longer than 30 mins to get ready for Dynamis.

My point though was that if casual players can get their cake, why can't hardcore players get their own cake? Casual players are getting everything they want, but somehow it's totally evil to just give a little something to the hardcore playerbase? (Which again, I'm not referring to the relic system currently in FFXIV, but something along the lines of Dynamis.)

[Dragon]

This ^ I'm far from casual i'm just tired of playing Craps and constantly getting Snake eyes.

Exactly.

I'm neither casual nor hardcore, but I am much closer to being hardcore than casual; I just am.

[Enfarious]

2 of this statement is very contradictionary, one you suggest some content shouldnt be accessible to most players but doesnt lock them away, 3hour content does lock people away that doesnt have that playtime.

2-3hrs is long and you still need time to reform group and such, it will lock people that doesnt have playtime away.

Currently all content is casual friendly and should remain that way, sure currently RNG system does frustates people, they should probably tokenize alot of things, but again how do you keep some things prestige? when you tokenize everything, all become predictable on how long it takes to achieve? how do you maintain something to be a rare? Nobody has come up with solution to this.

Perhaps I said that poorly. To restate it, hopefully more clearly though.

I don't think that content, regardless of time inside, should be restricted to players that have alot of time to play. It should never be a matter of how many hours a day you play. It should be based on whether you are skilled enough to gain access(pre-req quests) and to clear it. If 2~3hrs is more than you have everyday that you play so there's never a chance for you to do something that takes 2 hours I don't think your likely to be looking for these type of items anyway. Alot of spammable 15min content with entry reqs that can be completed by a naked level 50 is a little too accessible.

I think, being a player with less time during the week(usually 2~3 hrs) that wouldn't have time to form a PuG and go do something like this, I can say pretty fairly that I can still toss in a couple 3+ hour runs on my weekends, when you toss in that one of my days off is during the typical school/work week, I also all but lose the support of my LS until normal times so PuGs are what I have to do or solo farm/gather/craft for alot of my day. Only a couple people in my LS are online at off peak times on a regular basis. Still I'm not kept out based on time, I can enter if I can gain access(pre-req quests?), just not as often. I am however going to need alot more RL time to complete w/e the thing is due to getting less chances per day/week.

The rarity of an object based on luck just means that if the RNG strings a series of wins then alot of ppl have, if not then not many have. Skill being the determing factor means that if your good enough to clear the content you have, everyone can get it but some won't, or won't for a long time. Add to that a large number of items to collect from that content and between the difficulty and the time needed it will remain something that not many go after. Few people went after full relics/mythics in XI, the content was very clearable, but getting through it enough times and collecting enough of everything turned away many many people that didn't want to spend thier play time on that. Making those very rare in spite of everyone being able to get them if they put in the time.

Needing 100 of each primal totem(@100% totem/win/person ala Garuda) wouldn't be terrible. You've the choice of saving for that relic or getting the primal weapons off the top. If you have the tenacity to do each primal 100+ times with only the one reward after all of the fights great, many will not go 300 wins(between the 3 primals) because it will just take too long and the primal weapon is good enough for them.

Random is not the way to make a thing rare, it's a way to make a thing maybe rare, maybe not rare. The current system makes a thing frustrating as hell for one but not so bad for another, maybe. I really don't think anyone can say it is good.

[Enfarious]

Well you should've read my previous posts in this thread - I don't really like the current relic system and the current RNG system (which more than anything does support the casual base, since all you need is a bit of luck and you're done with it - no long-term effort whatsoever), and I'm not a casual player by far. (Though that doesn't mean I'm not going to participate in it; for the moment I'm just unsure whether I'll stick around beyond 2.0 and bothering with it would just be a huge waste of time should I decide to leave after 2.0.)

For the record, Dynamis was only 3hrs long and anyone that took more than 30 mins to get ready for it should've been booted as it only took a terrible linkshell longer than 30 mins to get ready for Dynamis.

My point though was that if casual players can get their cake, why can't hardcore players get their own cake? Casual players are getting everything they want, but somehow it's totally evil to just give a little something to the hardcore playerbase? (Which again, I'm not referring to the relic system currently in FFXIV, but something along the lines of Dynamis.)

You and I, and many many others have been saying the same thing, in different wrappers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post725564

I didn't say Dyna was more than 3 hours, the 300 mins. was about something suggested prior to there about 180~300 min. content. I agree if someone isn't ready and otw in relatively close to the scheduled start time fuck em. That's the point of a schedule, be prompt you knew it was coming. Of course in this if your 8th is late your a bit fucked, not the best system, better now with 4~8 for all dungeons, but w/e. The idea of a shell that took an hour to get ready was again a matter of illustration, though from time to time shit happened that's what the hourglass mule was there for.

I also won't label myself as hardcore or casual, I don't believe time is the real decider in that, and when I was younger it wasn't the time you put in, it was how good you were and whether you were always trying to get better. If my time spent learning/researching and trying to always improve my skill isn't sufficient because I don't actually play 60+ hours a week then w/e, I read/post here and such while I'm on breaks at work and/or between classes when I've nothing more important going on, yet my playtime would be listed by many as casual. That's really a whole different discussion though.

[Dragon]

You and I, and many many others have been saying the same thing, in different wrappers.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post725564

No problem, I know you're against it. It's just you came off like as if I supported it. ^.^

I didn't say Dyna was more than 3 hours, the 300 mins. was about something suggested prior to there about 180~300 min. content.

Oh I understand, but I know Shayla and you gotta take what she says with a grain of salt (she's also just a kid, too). All she wants is content and people to do that content with.

[Enfarious]

Thats naive to think people would do Stuff for free. ( Of course some do, but most dont ).

I was in an LS that worked toward one at a time, we did not get payed for each run, we did get choice of all drops but currency.

Run was 1.000.000 7 Years ago and if i would have sell Currency to get the Fee back i was in need to sell 200 ( since some were 5k ), which was a decent amount you could have gotten out of 1 run. So the whole run would have been a waste since i got nothing out of it.

I remember 500k, but 7 years ago was before I started running dyna, or maybe I'm remember the cost of something else?

I dont think you ever worked on a Relic, since that Math-Example is an naive assessment of the situation like mentioned above and said before. Total Cost if you buy all currency was 120.000.000, no matter if you could have sell some of the Currency to pay the Entry-Fee, or just bought Currency without sponsoring. In the end you would have to do more runs to get the Currency back you sold in the early Progress, to the the total amount you need. So you could have save the Time and not sell any of them.. but no matter how you turn it, it either has costs more time or more gil. And again.. it is really naive to think that everyone was able to have a Linkshell which will run Dynamis all the Time just for 1 guy. I knew Linkshells which did it once a week, once a month, 2 times a week but currency were free lot and so on... and so on.

I said post cost ~100 currency a run, yes if you were free lotting everything then well I'm sorry it would have taken a long time and/or a ton of gil. Post abyssea and post dyna reforms, as I mentioned somewhere else, people solo all but the final stage NMs, and of course you can go once a day for free. It's that system that's in place now that I believe would be a far better choice, but even old brutal years long dyna, which believe it or not I did go to, we did give sponsor currency for the glass, and we did work on 1 persons at a time, we did not go with more than a single alliance either. The shell I was in before that did the whole even split of the glass cost, and split currency after the run so everyone got equal amounts then buy/sell/trade amongst yourselves. I never did dyna with a dyna shell that only went once a month. Even social shells that ran Dyna went at least on saturdays/sundays every week. Usually not to build relics so much as to go get clears and lot drops on armor and what have you. If some of my numbers are off, or you were getting 5k/currency, or w/e try to keep in mind that not every server was the same pricing, most of the currency I sold would go from 8k~15k a piece, calling that on avg. 10k and 50/run seemed about right to me, again I don't remember 1mil, I seem to remember 500k.
Should a player still possess an unused Timeless Hourglass, the Goblin NPCs will buy them back from you for a full refund of the purchase price (500,000 gil)(from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryynamis) So I know that I'm not losing my mind there.

But here again back to the Topic

The Current Progress in FFXIV CAN obviously be done in 1 Week and not everyone got their Seals before the Patch. I mentioned examples where people started along with the Patch.

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

[Dragon]

I remember 500k, but 7 years ago was before I started running dyna, or maybe I'm remember the cost of something else?

It may have changed around/after abyssea (August 2010), but until then it did cost a million gil to get into.

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

Yup, exactly. Call me crazy, but I also usually had fun with Dynamis anyways.

[Nero]

I didn't say everyone did, we can keep arguing what work out to be the same point in the end or not. Dyna had measurable progression that rewarded actual time spent and skill. Rather than luck.

Of course we could.. the Maindifference between Dynamis and Hamlet is that you had tons of Mobs which could drop the Currency compared to Hamlet where you get 1 Chest. ( i guess i read that somewhere above ). Maybe thats why it looks way worse than Dyna was... but is it really? Dyna was twice a week.. Hamlet you can spam over and over again.

Personally i dont mind spaming Hamlet, spaming CC/AV, or breaking even more Class-Weapons, but thats just me.

Should a player still possess an unused Timeless Hourglass, the Goblin NPCs will buy them back from you for a full refund of the purchase price (500,000 gil)(from http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Categoryynamis) So I know that I'm not losing my mind there.

It was change not long ago, like the Dragon said. It was changed somewhere at Abyssea Release Date.. im not sure exactly about the Date tho.

[Enfarious]

No problem, I know you're against it. It's just you came off like as if I supported it. ^.^



Oh I understand, but I know Shayla and you gotta take what she says with a grain of salt (she's also just a kid, too). All she wants is content and people to do that content with.

I just want content that doesn't deter people by it's very nature(in this case RNG), what we have now leads me to begging/buying people to go with me. They should want to join these things just like even those that weren't building relics/mythics still wanted to go to dyna/nyzul.

I think that most of us really are after the same things. Sorry if I made it sound otherwise.